Religious Controversies: The Right Religion

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
The right religion is the one that resonates with truth in you. [/quote]

and what if there is no truth in you?[/quote]
Then Calvin was right after all? =] (come on ya practically handed me that one, though I know that you know that I know exactly how you’ll respond to that, but I couldn’t resist.)

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
There isn’t a right religion. There are definitely wrong religions though. These are ones that close minds, tell people it’s right to do something they are against, or wrong to do something they agree with.

If you disagree with something, but follow it, I would say you’re following the wrong religion. Use your heart and mind as a guide in this world first and foremost. Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.[/quote]

So, Child molesters and serial killers should just find a religion that goes along with their heart and mind? Wonderful.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
There isn’t a right religion. There are definitely wrong religions though. These are ones that close minds, tell people it’s right to do something they are against, or wrong to do something they agree with.

If you disagree with something, but follow it, I would say you’re following the wrong religion. Use your heart and mind as a guide in this world first and foremost. Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.[/quote]

So, Child molesters and serial killers should just find a religion that goes along with their heart and mind? Wonderful.[/quote]

Good call. The idea of universal right and wrong is directly opposed to BIA’s view.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

Then you should be Catholic if you are following Christ. :slight_smile:

quote]

ahhh - but there’s that doctrine of individual priesthood of the believer amongst a few other doctrinal issues . . .

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

Then you should be Catholic if you are following Christ. :slight_smile:

quote]

ahhh - but there’s that doctrine of individual priesthood of the believer amongst a few other doctrinal issues . . .[/quote]

Yes, and what of it?

Jesus didn’t found the Catholic church. The Catholics don’t have any inherent monopoly on Christianity.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Jesus didn’t found the Catholic church. The Catholics don’t have any inherent monopoly on Christianity.[/quote]

Um…Jesus did give us our Authority. Unless, you know Jesus really didn’t mean what He said.

Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. [17] And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. [18] And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. [19] And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. [20] Then he commanded his disciples, that they should tell no one that he was Jesus the Christ.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Jesus didn’t found the Catholic church. The Catholics don’t have any inherent monopoly on Christianity.[/quote]

Um…Jesus did give us our Authority. Unless, you know Jesus really didn’t mean what He said.

Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. [17] And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. [18] And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. [19] And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. [20] Then he commanded his disciples, that they should tell no one that he was Jesus the Christ. [/quote]

Funny how they don’t mention Catholicism in there anywhere. The burden of proof would be on you to prove that the authority of peter commanded the catholic church was the only true church and all believers should belong to it.

“Everyone who lives in me and believes in me will never ever die.”

It is pretty obvious that Christ referred to the church as his believers. Besides Peter as much started Protestantism as he did the catholic church.

“For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them.”

My understanding is that fellowship with other believers is all that is required for a house of god, I donâ??t seem to see where they mention that it has to be a specific administration.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Jesus didn’t found the Catholic church. The Catholics don’t have any inherent monopoly on Christianity.[/quote]

Um…Jesus did give us our Authority. Unless, you know Jesus really didn’t mean what He said.

Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. [17] And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. [18] And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. [19] And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. [20] Then he commanded his disciples, that they should tell no one that he was Jesus the Christ. [/quote]

ahhhh, just finished my first practice exam for my series 6 test, and I have a few minutes while I await my fellow classmates’ completing their tests, so I will tackle this one . . .

Bro Chris - much respect to the RCC for its positive impacts on the world. However, you are building on a false premise with your interpretation of this verse.

Christ uses a play on words based on two things - Peter’s Correct Identification of his Deity, and Peter’s name . . . petros - piece of a rock (Peter’s name) compared to petra - a large formation/mass of stone/rock (recognition of Christ’s deity) of which a petros would be a piece. There is a clear distinction in the Greek between Peter and the Rock.

a good comparison would be a large stone or a boulder that falls off of Stone Mountain . . . they are not the same thing, thus Christ could not have been referring to Peter. A fact born out by the text itself.

So the statement is correctly read as "and I say you are a piece of stone (a part of the larger stone because of his faith) and on this Large Stone (accepting my deity in faith) I will build my church.

The emphasis/focus for that which Christ will build His Church upon is recognition of His deity - the first step in accepting his sacrifice as the atonement for our sins. The concept being that the cornerstone of the Church - the beginning/base of the church would be Christ himself as testified to in Ephesians 2:20 (I think that’s the right verse)

It is even further attested to when in the same passage He commands His disciples to not tell anyone that He is the Christ - the very thing that Peter declared and that Christ identified as the stone upon which the church would be built. The focus of the passage is clearly the deity/person of Christ, not Peter . . .

The Keys of th eKingdom and following - are given to all believers and do not represent any type of authority or position here on earth . . .

Sorry, but it doesn’t mean what you think it means . . .

1 Peter 2:1-12
[i]"So put away all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander. Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvationâ?? if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is good.

As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious. you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For it stands in Scripture:

“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone,
a cornerstone chosen and precious,
and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”

So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe,

“The stone that the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone,”
and

“A stone of stumbling,
and a rock of offense.”

They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.

But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. Once you were not a people, but now you are God’s people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

Beloved, I urge you as sojourners and exiles to abstain from the passions of the flesh, which wage war against your soul. Keep your conduct among the Gentiles honorable, so that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day of visitation."[/i]

As one example.
Peter wrote this epistle “To those who are elect exiles of the dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood”. I don’t see here (or anywhere else) any special elite class that will one day be headquartered in an obscenely opulent palace complex in Rome that was built directly by the abominable practice of strangling money out of starving peasants with the promise of springing their deceased loved ones from an imaginary purgatory.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
There isn’t a right religion. There are definitely wrong religions though. These are ones that close minds, tell people it’s right to do something they are against, or wrong to do something they agree with.

If you disagree with something, but follow it, I would say you’re following the wrong religion. Use your heart and mind as a guide in this world first and foremost. Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.[/quote]

So, Child molesters and serial killers should just find a religion that goes along with their heart and mind? Wonderful.[/quote]

You seemed to have missed my last part:
“Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.”

Ironic, you bring up child molesters to criticize my viewpoint when your religion has the majority of them.

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
There isn’t a right religion. There are definitely wrong religions though. These are ones that close minds, tell people it’s right to do something they are against, or wrong to do something they agree with.

If you disagree with something, but follow it, I would say you’re following the wrong religion. Use your heart and mind as a guide in this world first and foremost. Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.[/quote]

So, Child molesters and serial killers should just find a religion that goes along with their heart and mind? Wonderful.[/quote]

You seemed to have missed my last part:
“Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.”

Funny, you bring up child molesters to criticize my viewpoint when your religion has the majority of them.[/quote]

lol.

“Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.”

So, this is your religion’s mission statement? Helping and suffering and good are all relative words.

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

<<< “Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.” >>>[/quote]
What if they believe that man boy love is divinely helpful and remedial of suffering?

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
There isn’t a right religion. There are definitely wrong religions though. These are ones that close minds, tell people it’s right to do something they are against, or wrong to do something they agree with.

If you disagree with something, but follow it, I would say you’re following the wrong religion. Use your heart and mind as a guide in this world first and foremost. Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.[/quote]

So, Child molesters and serial killers should just find a religion that goes along with their heart and mind? Wonderful.[/quote]

You seemed to have missed my last part:
“Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.”

Funny, you bring up child molesters to criticize my viewpoint when your religion has the majority of them.[/quote]

lol.

“Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.”

So, this is your religion’s mission statement? Helping and suffering and good are all relative words.[/quote]

I never said I was religious (I’m not). I was just saying there are lots of bad religions out there that give you rules to follow which you might not agree with (for moral or personal reasons).

Examples: Sexuality, birth control, etc.

And I agree, they are relative words. What is wrong with that?

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

<<< “Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.” >>>[/quote]
What if they believe that man boy love is divinely helpful and remedial of suffering?[/quote]

Catholic priests don’t believe this and do it anyways.

Obviously, rape is a greatly traumatic act that causes suffering to the victim. One should not cause suffering for others. Obviously, I’m against rape.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

<<< “Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.” >>>[/quote]
What if they believe that man boy love is divinely helpful and remedial of suffering?[/quote]

What if they track down unhappy disabled or suffering people and end their misery with bullet in their head? Technically destroying all life on the earth in a massive explosion would be the path of least suffering.

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
There isn’t a right religion. There are definitely wrong religions though. These are ones that close minds, tell people it’s right to do something they are against, or wrong to do something they agree with.

If you disagree with something, but follow it, I would say you’re following the wrong religion. Use your heart and mind as a guide in this world first and foremost. Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.[/quote]

So, Child molesters and serial killers should just find a religion that goes along with their heart and mind? Wonderful.[/quote]

You seemed to have missed my last part:
“Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.”

Funny, you bring up child molesters to criticize my viewpoint when your religion has the majority of them.[/quote]

lol.

“Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.”

So, this is your religion’s mission statement? Helping and suffering and good are all relative words.[/quote]

I never said I was religious (I’m not). I was just saying there are lots of bad religions out there that give you rules to follow which you might not agree with (for moral or personal reasons).

Examples: Sexuality, birth control, etc.

And I agree, they are relative words. What is wrong with that?[/quote]

Them being relative removes the meaning from your statement because good can mean whatever a person thinks it means.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

<<< “Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.” >>>[/quote]
What if they believe that man boy love is divinely helpful and remedial of suffering?[/quote]

What if they track down unhappy disabled or suffering people and end their misery with bullet in their head? Technically destroying all life on the earth in a massive explosion would be the path of least suffering.[/quote]

You guys are taking this way way too far.

[quote]BackInAction wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
There isn’t a right religion. There are definitely wrong religions though. These are ones that close minds, tell people it’s right to do something they are against, or wrong to do something they agree with.

If you disagree with something, but follow it, I would say you’re following the wrong religion. Use your heart and mind as a guide in this world first and foremost. Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.[/quote]

So, Child molesters and serial killers should just find a religion that goes along with their heart and mind? Wonderful.[/quote]

You seemed to have missed my last part:
“Any path that leads to helping of others and the removal of suffering of all things around you is a good one.”

Ironic, you bring up child molesters to criticize my viewpoint when your religion has the majority of them.[/quote]

I am going to stick up for the Roman Catholic Church on this one. I do not agree with all of their doctrines as many can see, but they can and are my brothers and sisters in Christ. I heard a study and the Catholic Church by percentages of men have a lower percentage of Child Molesters than the public. This does not abolish the crime, because the priest should be above reproach, but the priests are humans just like you and me, and they have their sins. I think the Catholic Church really screwed up by allowing these men to be placed in another church with children. They should have sent them to a monestary to never be arond children ever again. They will be judged for this. The Pope really screwed up no matter which one allowed this to go on. They have apologized, and hopefully will pay restitution and not go through the bankruptcy proceedings to keep their money in the Vatican.

[quote]BackInAction wrote:
<<< Obviously, rape is a greatly traumatic act that causes suffering to the victim. One should not cause suffering for others. Obviously, I’m against rape.[/quote]
Obvious to who? What if there is consent? Who are you to stick your nose into somebody’s business and tell them what the age of consent is or what suffering is? What if I disagree? What makes your definitions any better than mine?