Religion of Peace

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
21

[quote]derek wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
derek wrote:

  1. Me, I hate no one except for child molesters, rapists and murderers. Is that OK?

What if the child molester was your son?

What if.

Tough question. How about you?
[/quote]

I never stated I would kill anyone…

If it were my son I would help him get treatment and hope it works. Granted, his treatment would probably coincide with his prison sentence. Prison is a tough place for child molesters. This punishment is probably far more effective than simply killing them.

Jesus says to forgive is devine but many Christians don’t get past the Old Testament so they wouldn’t really know that would they?

22

[quote]derek wrote:
I saw some from there and others from an e-mail of the event.[/quote]

Forgive my pickiness, but none of the pictures you posted were from the Sun.

Was the pictures’ email from a newsletter? If so, which one? I really want to get a peek into your world.

23

[quote]lixy wrote:
derek wrote:
I saw some from there and others from an e-mail of the event.

Forgive my pickiness, but none of the pictures you posted were from the Sun.

Was the pictures’ email from a newsletter? If so, which one? I really want to get a peek into your world.

[/quote]

Honestly, I got an e-mail from a family member. I Googled the protest and found some of the same pictures I had already. I put a few into my Photosuite to use in the thread.

Is there a doubt that the pictures are genuine?

24

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

Jesus says to forgive is devine but many Christians don’t get past the Old Testament so they wouldn’t really know that would they? [/quote]

I don’t know that I said I would actually kill anyone. I don’t dispute that some should be immediately put to death depending on the crime.

I have a thread in here where the murderers involved should absolutely be put to death and fast.

But to answer your question, I haven’t met any Christians that “couldn’t get past the Old Testament” so I cannot speak for them. Exactly how many have you met with and discussed that with?

25

[quote]makkun wrote:
Not in my name
http://chanad.weblogs.us/?p=396

As Muslims speak out, appeals intensify for reporter’s release

Muslim Condemnations of 9/11

Sexual Harrassment of Muslim women
http://www.themodernreligion.com/women/w_harassmuslims.htm

Theologians Battle Female Circumcision

10/28/04 - MUSLIMS SPEAK AGAINST TERRORISM
http://www.voanews.com/uspolicy/archive/2004-11/a-2004-11-01-1-1.cfm

Young Muslims speak out to counter misconceptions

Egyptian Intellectuals Speak Out Against the Muslim Brotherhood Movement and its Slogan “Islam is the Solution”
http://www.freemuslims.org/news/article.php?article=1349

American Muslims need to speak out against violations of Islamic Shariah law.
http://www.asmasociety.org/perspectives/article_8.html

MUSLIMS SPEAK OUT AGAINST RADICAL ISLAM
http://www.discoverthenetwork.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=453

U.S. Muslims Warn of Threat From Within

U.S. Muslim Scholars Issue Edict Against Terrorism

Muslims against Terrorism
http://www.islamfortoday.com/terrorism.htm

British Muslims Speak Out About “Loudmouths” In Their Midst
http://www.altmuslim.com/perm.php?id=1208_0_26_0_C29

Qataris demonstrate against terrorism
http://www.muhajabah.com/islamicblog/archives/veiled4allah/010481.php

150.000 Muslims demonstrate against Al Qaeda

Windsor Muslims demonstrate
http://homepage.mac.com/jimmonk/iblog/C164208550/E20060227123504/index.html [/quote]

Just the titles alone make me smile. I’ll admit that I did not do an exhaustive search for an opposing view as you did.

This may be the very thing that’ll make me eat my words.

Thanks for those links. I will read them and most likely change my opinions from above.

Thanks again!

26

Lets see. Islam is a bit younger than Christianity. I believe Islam is in it’s what, 14th century (correct me if I’m wrong).

Christianity is in it’s 21st. So if we knock off the difference, thats the 1300’s. Wanna talk about what Christianity was like then?

27

[quote]derek wrote:
tme wrote:
You want some pictures of bat-shit crazy Christians as irrefutable proof that all Christians feel the same way?

Want some pictures of the Westboro Baptist Church picketing soldier’s funerals? Because obviously they speak for all Christians, right?

Douchebag.

Poor tme. You seem to be stuck in “douchebag” mode. Can you please call me something new? I know you have it in you!

I feel the same way about ALL those people you mentioned. When the Westboro Baptists start blowing themselves up to kill innocent men, women and children, I’ll start worrying more about them.

Understood, buddy?

[/quote]

Your attitude towards Muslims is remarkably similar to those of Nazis in Germany, when some European Jews started popping up who extremist/radical views.

28

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
Lets see. Islam is a bit younger than Christianity. I believe Islam is in it’s what, 14th century (correct me if I’m wrong).

Christianity is in it’s 21st. So if we knock off the difference, thats the 1300’s. Wanna talk about what Christianity was like then? [/quote]

Since you and I were not alive then, no I don’t wanna talk about it.

I care about now, in my lifetime and that of my kids, but that’s just me.

29

[quote]derek wrote:
Andrew Dixon wrote:
Christians have done their share of bloodshed. So has probably every other religion. The extreme ends of all of them are he worlds biggest killers.

I agree, but we’re talking about today. I cannot do anything about the somewhat distant past.

It just seems that that theory while true, is rather like calling European Americans slave owners. I’m concerned with what’s going on now.

There may be a lot of non-Christians dying at the hands of fanatical Christians today but I don’t see it.[/quote]

That means that the fault does not lie withing the religion, but within certain people. If terrible things have been commited in the name of Chrstianity, yet it is a peaceful religion, then that means the fault did not lie within the religion, but the people who were practicing it.

The links provided were excellent, but try www.irfi.org, which has excellent articles from educated Muslims who are more knowledgeable about their religion.

30

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
Lets see. Islam is a bit younger than Christianity. I believe Islam is in it’s what, 14th century (correct me if I’m wrong).

Christianity is in it’s 21st. So if we knock off the difference, thats the 1300’s. Wanna talk about what Christianity was like then? [/quote]

straw man

31

[quote]Shoebolt wrote:
Your attitude towards Muslims is remarkably similar to those of Nazis in Germany, when some European Jews started popping up who extremist/radical views.[/quote]

Uh oh!

Really? Funny you should mention that.

Thanks for reminding me about all those crazy Jews blowing up cars, blowing up buildings, killing thousands of innocent Europeans all in name of Judaism back in the 30’s and 40’s.

Oh how they cheered in the streets when Japan bombed Pearl Harbor.

Yeah, those Jews sure were a viloent, brutal bunch huh? I think Anne Frank beheaded 3-4 innocent civilians herself, the crazy bitch!

Care to make another comment like that last one?

32

[quote]Hanzo wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Lets see. Islam is a bit younger than Christianity. I believe Islam is in it’s what, 14th century (correct me if I’m wrong).

Christianity is in it’s 21st. So if we knock off the difference, thats the 1300’s. Wanna talk about what Christianity was like then?

straw man[/quote]

Exactly. Lets try to knock down an invisible and non-existent opponent to prove a point.

Straw man: The arguer makes up a proposition never offered by her opponent (usually weaker than the true proposition) and then attacks it as if his opponent had offered that proposition. This is most common on Internet chat sites. -Google Definitions

33

This is all I have to see and there are some protests.

http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/12min.htm

34

[quote]Shoebolt wrote:
That means that the fault does not lie withing the religion, but within certain people. If terrible things have been commited in the name of Chrstianity, yet it is a peaceful religion, then that means the fault did not lie within the religion, but the people who were practicing it.

Stop being so short-sighted.[/quote]

From the Koran:

O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54

Allah has purchased of their faithful lives and worldly goods, and in return has promised them the Garden. They will fight for His cause, kill and be killed. - 9:111 (check out the number!)

When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds, then set them free, either by grace or ransom, until the war lays down its burdens. - 47:4

If you should die or be killed in the cause of Allah, His mercy and forgiveness would surely be better than all they riches they amass. If you should die or be killed, before Him you shall all be gathered. - 3:157-8

It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has made slaughter in the land. - 8:67

When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. - 9:5

I’m sure there are Bible references that seem scarey but I don’t see evidence of thousands of Christians killing in Jesus’s name. Like I said, we’re talking about OUR lifetimes. Now not centuries in the past.

35

[quote]olderguy wrote:
This is all I have to see and there are some protests.

http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/12min.htm [/quote]

I see hundreds of people, probably thousands at these rallies in this video. Correction: definately several thousand!

Then someone has the nerve to compare this to those Southboro Baptists assholes. Talk about apples to oranges.

36

[quote]derek wrote:
olderguy wrote:
This is all I have to see and there are some protests.

http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/12min.htm

I see hundreds of people, probably thousands at these rallies in this video.

Then someone has the nerve to compare this to the Southboro Baptists assholes. Talk about apples to oranges.
[/quote]

My head isn’t in the SAND when it comes to this. People on this thread can say what they want, and I’ll believe what I want. Their, (radicals), actions speak louder than words.

I saw most of the special on TV which I think was an hour. Scary isn’t the word.

But what stands out the most to me is that this is on TV, not just in Iran, but in Saudi Arabia, Iraq, and other countries. What would the world think of us if we broadcast slitting the throats of Muslims, because they are Muslims, on the 6 o’clock news?

37

[quote]derek wrote:
Shoebolt wrote:
That means that the fault does not lie withing the religion, but within certain people. If terrible things have been commited in the name of Chrstianity, yet it is a peaceful religion, then that means the fault did not lie within the religion, but the people who were practicing it.

Stop being so short-sighted.

From the Koran:

O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54

Allah has purchased of their faithful lives and worldly goods, and in return has promised them the Garden. They will fight for His cause, kill and be killed. - 9:111 (check out the number!)

When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds, then set them free, either by grace or ransom, until the war lays down its burdens. - 47:4

If you should die or be killed in the cause of Allah, His mercy and forgiveness would surely be better than all they riches they amass. If you should die or be killed, before Him you shall all be gathered. - 3:157-8

It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has made slaughter in the land. - 8:67

When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. - 9:5

I’m sure there are Bible references that seem scarey but I don’t see evidence of thousands of Christians killing in Jesus’s name. Like I said, we’re talking about OUR lifetimes. Now not centuries in the past.

[/quote]

Lol.

The Koran in English is not the Koran. There are virtually dozens of different interpretations for each verse. So don’t pepper me with English translations. If you study classical Arabic you will understand that much like Ancient Hebrew and Aramaic, the language needs a deep understanding to grab the meaning and messages.

Take - Home Message:
Translations can be mistranslated or misrepresented.
Translations can be

38

[quote]olderguy wrote:
derek wrote:
olderguy wrote:
This is all I have to see and there are some protests.

http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/12min.htm

I see hundreds of people, probably thousands at these rallies in this video.

Then someone has the nerve to compare this to the Southboro Baptists assholes. Talk about apples to oranges.

My head isn’t in the SAND when it comes to this. People on this thread can say what they want, and I’ll believe what I want. Their, (radicals), actions speak louder than words.

I saw most of the special on TV which I think was an hour. Scary isn’t the word.

But what stands out the most to me is that this is on TV, not just in Iran, but in Saudi Arabia, Iraq, and other countries. What would the world think of us if we broadcast slitting the throats of Muslims, because they are Muslims, on the 6 o’clock news?[/quote]

Your close to it. The main problem is that these atrocities are ccommited under the banner of Islam, although the reasons have more to do with nationalism, pride and politics. With mistranslations and verses and ideas taken out of context or not studied well enough (most of these sick terrorists and supporters are uneducated, bigoted or nationalistic), you can justify anything.

39

Just because a few people promote religion in a negative light, you can’t base the whole religion off of this. There are not that many people in the protest compared to the 1.5 billion Muslims in the world.

Islam is a peaceful religion, so you can’t let a few people be the basis of an entire religion. Every religion has good and bad.

40

[quote]tmoney1 wrote:
Just because a few people promote religion in a negative light, you can’t base the whole religion off of this. There are not that many people in the protest compared to the 1.5 billion Muslims in the world.

Islam is a peaceful religion, so you can’t let a few people be the basis of an entire religion. Every religion has good and bad.[/quote]

To tmoney and shoebolt,
I am not knocking all of Islam and am aware that there are a lot of Muslims that would like to live in peace and have no part in the radical aspects. But please don’t try and say it’s only a “few”. A small percentage of 1.5 bil
is more than a few.

If you aren’t saying the video is over the top, then you would have to say they could make the world a very dangerous place. Even a small percentage of them.

Again, I know what I think and I think the world is in trouble.

We aren’t talking about the KKK here.