T Nation

Religion Catch All

When you find yourself in an inadvertent religious conversation on another thread and want to follow through with it, bring it here!
You can get all your religion bits out without it polluting another topic.

Maybe you should just confine yourself to this thread since you are the one who usually brings up religion in the first place.

Then runs away crying about people talking about religion when your ignorance is exposed.

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That’s not what it says at all. It says that she is to be cursed to miscarry if indeed she cheated.

@chris_ottawa

How is this not an abortion by magic in the case of cheating? Let’s say that the way the Bible lays out this procedure actually worked. Does the fact that the woman gets punished change the morality of the procedure? I thought the part of abortion that was objectionable to the pro-lifers was that the unborn is terminated, not that the punishment of shame has been reduced?

[Luke 16:17] 17 It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.

That law includes the part that says thou shalt not kill.

It also says to stone disobedient children and gay folks. How does one obey the law about not killing, while also killing gay folks (or disobedient children) as instructed?

Edit: Sorry the copy paste does not work well from thread to thread (unless I am missing something).

Because the idea is that God is supposed to make that happen if she did actually cheat, it’s a miscarriage under certain conditions. Nowhere does it mention intentionally aborting a baby on your own terms.

There are obviously some exceptions to certain laws, it’s not hard to understand that.

I’m not really into any sort of debate about abortion or gays because I already know it will go nowhere so I won’t waste my time. As Jesus said, “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.”

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Does, thou shalt not kill, mean Israelites can’t kill other Israelites or they can’t kill anyone? Because, after fleeing Egypt, the Israelites engaged in genocide and sexual slavery.

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It does in fact come down to the husbands terms. The curse does not occur if the husband of the suspected cheating wife does not take the wife to the priest who then applies the curse through the procedure laid out in Numbers.

The issue is that the exceptions are frequently not explained, and are interpreted differently (often by genuine people trying to follow the Bible).

I can understand a person being inconsistent over time, but God? If it is his book, he is all over the place on his positions.

Interpretation - don’t debate people who disagree with what I am telling you, or you may change your mind.

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I already covered that above, there are exceptions. You have to look at the context of what happened. However, the Talmud (which is what most religious Jews follow) actually says that all these laws only apply to Jews dealing with other Jews.

No, I just think that with certain topics like abortion and homosexuality there is nothing left to debate and the whole discussion is a waste of time. You’re not about to change my mind on anything.

In what context is taking sexual slaves permissible? How about the context in which killing young children over the sins of their fathers is okay?

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Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Deuteronomy 24:16

This is another reason why there is no point in debating certain things with certain people, because they don’t even know what they are talking about.

Sure it says that, but then God instructs the opposite. In some cases even killing “anything that breathes” of neighboring tribes. Look up the Canaanites.

Well I think I know what I am talking about. At one point in my life I genuinely tried my best to live by the Bible and follow Jesus. I went to Bible class every day, Sunday service, Wednesday service, Chapel 3X a week, and did personal devotions and prayer every night. Growing up, my parents thought I would turn out to be a pastor.

I believe I would probably still be a Christian if I didn’t try as hard as I did to follow the Bible / Jesus’ teachings. When I tried to read and understand the whole book stuff started to not add up to an all knowing, all loving, all powerful God.

So a Christian can kill anyone he wants.

Do you understand why they were supposed to kill the Canaanites?

Boys were butchered like animals; girls were kept for sex.

As long as he’s an Orthodox Jew in disguise.

It doesn’t matter; it never happened.

Neither did this discussion

IMO, it doesn’t matter when it comes to innocent parties within the group (which children are).

Is it up to you to decide what is right or wrong?

I am not taking a pot shot here, so don’t take it as one. You were not taught anything about the Bible, or you wouldn’t have these questions. I’m sure you attended and all of that, but they failed to instruct. Probably because they didn’t know anything themselves. I’m not going to get into any huge argument on here, for reasons that Chris mentioned. The Mosaic Law as outlined in Leviticus and Numbers has nothing to do with Christians, it died with Jesus. He fulfilled the Law. The actions of the Israelites in that era were dictated for very specific reasons, and cannot be swept up in the general strokes. And Christians are actually not allowed to kill anyone, scripturally. People confuse the actions of people claiming to be Christian with the reality of the instructions they have in the Bible.

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