Regular Long-Time Tren Users, How’s Your Health?

Yeah, sorry last part was directed at you in particular. Just an observation in general.

Thanks!

You are and have always been one of my favourite contributing members here

Don’t leave this forum, this place needs you

@tareload

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You set the standard my man. And poor @johann77 he hung in for a while!

There’s a good group of dudes on here! Keep up the great work fellas.

See I told you this was going to be another installment of the weekly risk reduction T-Nation board meeting.

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I was hoping that the OP would get responses from those who are, or have been long time trenbolone users. I didn’t consider myself in that category, but had been a user of trenbolone.

My first use of trenbolone was from Parabolan which I believe was 78mg/cc (glass vial). My workout partner had begun going to Europe to buy AAS. The first time he limited his trek to Spain. A year later he added France in his trip. He mailed back quite a bit of Parabolan along with other AAS. I added 78mg/wk of Parabolan to my AAS stacks for 8 week periods for about 4 years on some cycles. I didn’t always use Parabolan every cycle. I know this is extremely low dose, compared to those used today.

A few years later my workout partner got hold of some Finajet pellets meant for cattle. He crushed and melted it in with some vegetable oil, strained it through a filter, and added an oil based alcohol. He bottled that in 10cc bottles and sold it as “Cow” to his friends, but he used most of it for himself. I knew that Parabolan had a long half-life, and wrongfully thought Finajet did too. I would take 1cc/wk. I didn’t really feel as if it added much, and it probably didn’t work but a day or two out of the whole week. I did this only a couple 8 week cycles.

Clearly I am not a long time or high dose user. I am at least giving you my tren use. I would be considered a long time AAS user, being I did so for 3 decades.

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You should have your own risk reduction thread. NB above interested reader.

No.
It would be the same as asking your grandparents exact financial advice on how to survive on 5 dollars a week. It wont work. Why? Because 5 dollars then are not the same as they are now. Nothing is.
The mindset we can definetly be interested in. The principles. The way he structured cycles and training - yes.
But NOT the exact numbers and dosages as the stuff he used does not exist. I truly believe that @RT_Nomad should either abstain from using exact numbers or always remind that the numbers he is giving are for pharma that hasnt been produced for decades anymore. There is not a single thing in the world that is the same since that time. Not milk, not meat, not even rain water probably.
Giving an exact dosage numbers for cycles is a huge disservice. Its the same as saying that if you cant live with 25 cents a day you suck with finances. Its just not fair, as the money is different and same is the pharma. There was a time when cocaine and meth was used as medicine, so definetly steroids were also much different such long time ago. We just cant compare what was then made by 2 manufacturers and sold for legit purposes, with UGL stuff we have now.
In fact, i think the exact dosage talk is pointless in any way cuz just because someone gains from 500mgs it doesnt mean everyone will. What if i need 1500mgs? Someone saying that 500mgs is enough might be a lie that crushes me mentally and destroys my dreams and my lifestyle. Dosages are absolutelly individual and dosages from 30 years back should never be mentioned at all.

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So what is your hypothesis on the “drug inflation” idea? Perhaps we are talking past each other as you keep referring to UGL drugs. If you are going to go to the trouble of procuring them then make sure the stated dosage/ml (concentration) or mg/tab etc. is accurate using third party testing.

200 mg of testosterone today is the same as 200 mg of testosterone 30 years ago.
same goes for other AAS.

Therefore, the oxandrolone in Searle “anavar” from 35 years ago (say 10 mg per tablet) will be the same as the oxandrolone in whatever pharma product you are taking today. If you don’t go to this trouble then you have no idea what you are taking and that is a recipe for disaster and confusion.

If you are just taking whatever shit someone sells you and don’t do the leg work then obviously I can see your point as you are at the mercy of your supplier. However, that is sloppy and not recommended. A while back I asked about the idea of a true Pharma quality (purity and API content) forum vs UGL forum. Know what you are injecting and putting in your body. Otherwise you will stay perpetually confused just like the test dosage vs serum level threads.

Yes.
I refer to these as most people dont get legit prescription…TREN ???
As i mentioned - unless we exchange the exact manufacturer, the dosage talk can do more harm than good.

Yes, and all im saying is that we should stop confusing people by mixing these things. Lets be real - most people who use shit now, and get gains or dont get em, use UGL stuff, and yes - they have no idea what they are taking.
Lying to them that 200mgs of test is enough is just making things worse. I know you want to live in the perfect world where all the gear is pharma grade and prescribed but thats just not realistic and you pushing this idea is just childish. I believe you understand the reality - you just dont want to admit that it is the majority and reality if we talk about serious sports and PED use.

Maybe it is time for a single thread to address AAS quality degradation over time.

Is it safe to assume that the testosterone that I get at the pharmacy today is the same that was used in the 1980’s that was sold at pharmacies?

I know absolutely nothing about AAS which being used today (other than maybe testosterone)? Most all we used during the 1980’s was also sold in pharmacies, or veterinary grade.

Yes I understand the reality which is why I recommend having your UGL tested for potency and at least basic purity. There are tons of places to get even crowd sourced data on particular suppliers if you don’t go to the trouble yourself. Of course better to blind the sample and send it in for testing.

I guess, but you have to understand that most people in here dont use pharma grade stuff. People like me look at you - you did achieve something, so we wanna be like you. You say your dosages, but i live in eastern europe, i buy some iranian lab stuff and i take your doses and i dont even get an increase of e2… So i start to doubt myself, and drop the thing i love because i am probably shit, right? Well…not necessary. Maybe the stuff you took at 200mgs is my stuff 2000mgs. We dont know. So all im saying is - for safety reasons, we shouldnt use exact dosages.

In this country there is no such thing as TRT prescribed by doctors and most labs dont even understand what is the e2 they are doing bloodwork for. I am sure there is no way to test this stuff. Also, idk how it is in the country where everything is good, but in here - we buy stuff and get random lab stuff, its not like i can pick “i want the one with the red label”. You get what you can get at that time. There are always labs shut down, shit on the borders, war going on, laws changing, etc.

It is actually much more simple to NOT give dosage advice, than to ask everyone to test their shit. Its like a barbie princess in a pink bubble - you want everyone to be perfect while the actually easiest solution is just NOT MENTIONING the thing.

edit - and this is the only problem i have with some stuff you say @tareload … you dont speak from experience so you can sound allmighty and always right.
If you would actually try to blast for 10 years with different gear and problems it comes with, your opinions might change.
Its very easy to NOT participate, but have the correct answers to everything. Its like always the best fighting advice is given to fighters by guys screaming at the TV who havent fought once in their life.
Its just very different when you actually LIVE IT, instead of critique it sitting on a high horse of not participating in this lifestyle.

And this also is a general problem of online forums. In this thread of long term tren users, out of all the talk, i believe there is only me, who has an actual experience with tren long term, but the discussion very long and detailed about everything BUT actual experience on the topic.

I see your point on dosage due to questionable concentration, but doesn’t that also include it being questionable that the AAS you bought could be a different AAS?

I can see a case where a UGL had a limited variety of AAS and sent actual AAS, but not what it is claimed to be. Maybe their tren is blend of testosterone and another AAS. I definitely liked the assurance that I knew what I was buying.

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I understand your frustration with lack of access to testing, availability of supply, etc. I am not judging you. But a simple question…

How do you know how much tren you have taken cumulatively in your claim above if I follow your logic and statements?

We will have to disagree on this. Purity and potency on AAS should not stay in the closet. Let them come out to the world.

If I got something wrong call me on it. At the end of the day people can do what they want. That won’t stop me from trying to provide the best possible information and get the facts correct as best I can. I don’t know where the “high horse” comment came from. But as you say people have different approaches with this stuff. I am sure you are aware of Janoshik and the other online analytical chemistry services. I don’t know how you can comment on the effect of a drug if you don’t know what you are taking. The idea of thinking you are injecting 200 mg/ml concentration but actually injecting 125 mg/ml + some other crap just doesn’t compute for me. But that’s just me.

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This has been the trend from a few of the YouTube gurus lately. I believe most guys would make gains on that dose over 6 months, but to push that as a cycle is kinda silly. The health risks from increasing the dose a bit to 4-500 are minimal for most, but the gains might actually be worth it.

The stuff about gear changing is weird to me. I visit another forum occasionally, and I’ll read about what some of the older guys say about X brand of dianabol from 91 or whatever that was supposed to just be kick ass compared to everything else. Maybe it had Methyl Tren in it, or was overdosed or something?

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Question for you as you’d know the answer

From what I recall, last year the FDA was attempting to put a blockade on and/or dramatically restrict access to bioidentical compounded hormones

Has this gone through.

If it does and/or has gone through, what does this mean for low T clinics (SOME) of which are actually legitimate.

Still working through the process and I predict it will come down hard on many clinics. Especially women will be affected as they won’t have access to compounded test cream. I’ve got a list somewhere on here for everything they will axe in Phase 1. Huge impact. Every compounding pharmacy’s own version of the below will go away!

Oh here it is:
image

Fortunately the other AAS will still be available and probably won’t get the axe till Phase 2 or 3.

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Testosterone, Test Cyp, and Test Prop make the list. What I wonder is does Testosterone cover the other esters? Seems weird that they would list out Cyp and Prop, it Testosterone just covered everything? Maybe they are talking about compounded creams and such?

Maybe the clinics can just switch over to Test E?

Yes, “testosterone” would cover creams, troches, and Empower Nasal gel. Unsure if TE will make the final list. Women will be screwed as usual.

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So is generic testosterone cypionate affected here?

Doesn’t appear to be the case

I believe synthetic AAS are also manufactured via brand names/generics depending on the drug at hand

Why not try cut down on inappropriate prescribing as opposed to going down the avenue of hammering in a nail with a sledgehammer.

This is going to unjustly punish those who have legitimate medical conditions…

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No just the TC that the compounding pharmacies make that are exact knockoffs of the generic products. So all that would be left is retail/generic TC by Pharma companies.

For instance, Actavis makes a 200 mg/ml 10 ml vial in Spain (generic).
The Empower 200 mg/ml 10 ml vial would go away along with all the other compounded TC products made by various compounding pharmacies.