Its just damn frustrating… Ive tried a lot of different approaches with fat loss and ive always shed muscle, strength, power so damn quickly vs. fatty tissue.
I really thought this was going to work and I failed pretty hard - I wish thibs had suggested a vague training outline at some point for this kind of diet. I mean I do appreciate this is what the guy does for a living but theres no way in hell I can afford the $200-300 or so he charges for a months coaching on a student budget.
I’m not a vain person and I tend to lift for the sake of strength… but just once in my life, after being the fat kid all this time, I would like to be able to take my shirt off without feeling self conscious.
[quote]London Runner wrote:
Lyle openly states that he doesn’t know much about training, which is why he got outside assistance, and did a lot of research when recommending the training that he does in the book.
LR[/quote]
I’m interested in McDonald’s works and will get around to purchasing some in the future. At the moment I’m sticking out Berardi’s Get Shredded plan, and enjoying success.
What I am intersted in, however, is the concept of training on, or around, the refeed day. Berardi recommends training on the refeed day (i.e. every 14 days) to maximise the extra energy surplus to build muscle. Does McDonald take this approach? I know some CKD authors advocate not training during a refeed.
Any input appreciated.
JB
Skip- refeed on day off
Scott Abel- refeed on day off
Lyle McDonald- refeeds vary, but his largest refeeds start after a late evening workout and continue the next day on your day off.
[quote]benmoore wrote:
Its just damn frustrating… Ive tried a lot of different approaches with fat loss and ive always shed muscle, strength, power so damn quickly vs. fatty tissue.
I really thought this was going to work and I failed pretty hard - I wish thibs had suggested a vague training outline at some point for this kind of diet. I mean I do appreciate this is what the guy does for a living but theres no way in hell I can afford the $200-300 or so he charges for a months coaching on a student budget.
I’m not a vain person and I tend to lift for the sake of strength… but just once in my life, after being the fat kid all this time, I would like to be able to take my shirt off without feeling self conscious.[/quote]
Ok, but how soon after your latest muscle gains are you attempting to cut?
If you aren’t forcing your body to hold onto it - muscle - you’ll lose it easily.
I personally think muscle tissue’s metabolic activity VARIES depending on how new it is, i.e. newer tissue is more active, but that’s another topic.
[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
benmoore wrote:
Its just damn frustrating… Ive tried a lot of different approaches with fat loss and ive always shed muscle, strength, power so damn quickly vs. fatty tissue.
I really thought this was going to work and I failed pretty hard - I wish thibs had suggested a vague training outline at some point for this kind of diet. I mean I do appreciate this is what the guy does for a living but theres no way in hell I can afford the $200-300 or so he charges for a months coaching on a student budget.
I’m not a vain person and I tend to lift for the sake of strength… but just once in my life, after being the fat kid all this time, I would like to be able to take my shirt off without feeling self conscious.
Ok, but how soon after your latest muscle gains are you attempting to cut?
If you aren’t forcing your body to hold onto it - muscle - you’ll lose it easily.
I personally think muscle tissue’s metabolic activity VARIES depending on how new it is, i.e. newer tissue is more active, but that’s another topic.
[/quote]
At least a couple of months…
But this pattern has repeated itself whenever I have cut before.
One day when Im not poor I’ll hire someone like thibs to get me lean.
sighs
[quote]JamesBrawn007 wrote:
London Runner wrote:
Lyle openly states that he doesn’t know much about training, which is why he got outside assistance, and did a lot of research when recommending the training that he does in the book.
LR
I’m interested in McDonald’s works and will get around to purchasing some in the future. At the moment I’m sticking out Berardi’s Get Shredded plan, and enjoying success.
What I am intersted in, however, is the concept of training on, or around, the refeed day. Berardi recommends training on the refeed day (i.e. every 14 days) to maximise the extra energy surplus to build muscle. Does McDonald take this approach? I know some CKD authors advocate not training during a refeed.
Any input appreciated.
JB[/quote]
No, you don’t workout on the actual refeed, but he says to do between 40-60 mins low intensity cardio after the carb-up to re-establish ketosis. Which can be done the morning after on an empty stomach.
But Lyles refeed recommendations are for at least 36 hours.
LR
[quote]elusive wrote:
Skip- refeed on day off
Scott Abel- refeed on day off
Lyle McDonald- refeeds vary, but his largest refeeds start after a late evening workout and continue the next day on your day off.[/quote]
Scott Abel - works almost exclusivly with drugged out bodybuilders and “refeeds” are actually junk food binges that would make the average person pile on the fat
do a moderate volume, full body session prior to the refeed (which should be HIGH carb and very low fat) and you’ll be fine.
[quote]JMoUCF87 wrote:
elusive wrote:
Skip- refeed on day off
Scott Abel- refeed on day off
Lyle McDonald- refeeds vary, but his largest refeeds start after a late evening workout and continue the next day on your day off.
Scott Abel - works almost exclusivly with drugged out bodybuilders and “refeeds” are actually junk food binges that would make the average person pile on the fat
do a moderate volume, full body session prior to the refeed (which should be HIGH carb and very low fat) and you’ll be fine.[/quote]
Sweet I’m hiring Scott, sounds like he works with the pros.
Which diets can you say have really worked for you? What are you thoughts on the V-Diet?
[quote]JonBlood wrote:
Which diets can you say have really worked for you? What are you thoughts on the V-Diet?[/quote]
I finished the V-Diet 2 weeks ago, lost 5.3Kg and 3% BF. I weigh in every Sunday morning, so I don’t know what damage I’ve done this week, but I haven’t eaten well this week a couple of times.
LR
JMo, I’m amazed - for once I disagree with you 
Scott’s diet is great, I’ve done it before with great success (including huge refeeds on junk) with no adverse effects - weight kept coming off and energy went back up. OvalPline is another one who used it exclusively for quite some time (though he doesn’t really post here anymore).
Oh, and to give this post some relevance: yes, I’m completely natural 
I admittedly don’t know much about abel’s diet, but while refeeding on carbs has clear benefits (filling glycogen stores, giving leptin a boost etc.) binging on high carb/high fat junk food (ala the cycle diet) would just put the fat back on you, i would think. unless your IMTG stores are severely depleted, all that fat will likely go around your waist.
On the other hand, during a low fat refeed carbs are shuttled to the muscle first, while the body is still burning bodyfat for energy, thus allowing you to lose fat despite a huge influx of calories.
if the cycle diet worked for you, that’s fine, but for the average trainee, my instint tells me it would be more like two steps forward, one step back at best.
(and all of his products are ridiculously overpriced, but that’s another issue entirely)
Yeah, all of his products are very expensive. But anecdotally at least, the diet works. And while I haven’t read much of Joel Marions work, I think his ‘cheat to lose’ principles are similar - pizza and icecream on cheatdays, and if you look at some of the pictures of his clients they’re clearly not pro bodybuilders.
Honestly, I suggest giving it a try (once you reach a certain level of leanness and have been dieting for a while - it’s not reccomended that you just dive right in on week 2 of the diet). It’s fun, and a pretty good way (in my opinion) of maintaining conditioning without being too restrictive. As an aside, as far as I’m aware he has been clean for years and still uses a variant of the diet with success.