T Nation

Regarding Long-Term Dependency


#1

I apologize if this has been answered elsewhere. I've been looking around and have not been able to find an answer.

My question is regarding HPTA shutdown and permanent dependency. I'm at a point where I am seriously considering the possibility of staying 'on' Test' indefinitely... blasting and cruising... or just backing away from AAS entirely unless the legitimate need arises for TRT later in life.

I recognize that having engaged in use of AAS, I have already rolled the dice to some degree in regards to permanent HPTA shutdown.

My question is this:
Are there any resources that discuss the likelihood of permanent HPTA shutdown, and is there any information on what permanent HPTA shutdown looks like.

I ask these questions mainly because I am worried about creating a scenario where I am permanently dependent on a drug.

Swole


#2

How old are you? If you are over 40, for example, there is a good chance your test production will be tapering off naturally and TRT for life may not be a bad option. If you are in your 20's, however, it's a whole different story. Personally, I'd avoid it for as long as possible if the boys are still capable of producing.


#3

Im 35


#4

You need to get off the drugs and see what your values are. Do you know what they are?

Yes, you very well can shut yourself down for good if the pituitary has been inactive for a very long time. This is why COMPETENT doctors will ask if there has been AAS use in their first visit with you, as did mine.

What do you mean by "looks like"? All it can look like is consistent abnormally low FSH, LH, and T values. Unlesss you get off the drugs, visit a COMPETENT (strong emphasis on this word, as you can see) and get your values check, you will not know where you stand.

By the way, TRT involves no blasting and cruising--it's medicine given under a physician's prescription for a medical condition.

You said you won't consider using TRT unless the need arises. As long as you blast and cruise, you will know if there's a need.

And keep in mind that the longer you go through life blasting and cruising with BB style AAS use, the more likelihood you'll need TRT.

Most competent doctors (not rogue) affiliated with hospitals and medical systems will NEVER deal with someone non-compliant and constantly taking roids.


#5

Umm, there would be no need for medicine if the boys are still producing.

TRT isn't something you choose. You get it because you have a medical condition.


#6

Levels of 200 are "still producing".


#7

Thank you for the lecture.

I'm more interested in a conversation of the symptoms, effects, etc... of permanent or long-term HPTA shutdown.

I'm aware that blasting and cruising is not the same thing as TRT... feel free to pounce as much as you want, though.


#8

Huh?

Dude, I had no intention of lecturing you or pouncing on you.

I have permanent HPTA shutdown and I can engage in this conversation too.

I sincerely apologize if I came off the wrong way.


#9

Technically yes, but that value is indicative of a medical condition.


#10

My comment was in response to the OP's statement about AAS use, and the option of "blasting and crusing" as opposed to managing your HPTA by not engaging in excessive AAS use that would warrant a more permanent shutdown. If your natural levels are still high, it is always best to leave things that way as long as possible.


#11

Awesome... I mean, not that you have permanent shutdown, but that you are willing to offer some feedback.

So, in all seriousness, what are all the effects of permanent shutdown? I really have not been able to find much info online.

How did it happen to you, etc...?

Much appreciated.

Swole


#12

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


#13

Complete HPTA shutdown would be symptomatically identical to castration.


#14

Well, yeah. But this guy is new here I suppose. Nothing wrong with talking about it.


#15

I use the word "shutdown" for lack of a better word. We CAN say "pituitary dysfunction" or "hypogonadotrophic".

I prefer lingo.


#16

I think that a reality check was in order.


#17

Thank you for the feedback.

Yes, a bit of a reality check was in order... I'm comfortable with the risk associated with cycling on and off AAS with a good PCT. Just the specter of going long-term in a "blast and cruise" style had me stressed out to the point where I wasn't getting what I wanted out of the AAS, anyway. I'm cycling off here in a few weeks, and I will probably be off for about 4 to 5 months, with intermittent blood work.

I still have questions about the dependency aspect of TRT. Having been through some tough times with the faltering economy (thankfully coming out the other side, now) and being in a position of putting the welfare of others ahead of mine (2 sons), I'm leery of anything that would bind me permanently.

I kind of get the impression that once on TRT, the assumption is that you will never come off... Are there mitigating advantages or off-ramps that I'm not aware of? Am I looking at it the wrong way?

I don't know for certain (obviously) that I will ever be a candidate for TRT, but cyclical AAS use obviously raises that probability. Or am I wrong here?


#18

TRT is for those with a HPTA that does not work properly. If one matches that category, then the only alternative to continuing TRT is stopping and going back to feeling like crap. If one does that, it will be worse than before because one's body will have adjusted to a high level of testosterone and then that ends. So one has a dependency of wanting to feel ok and have a good quality of life. I think that I see that you are worried about the on going costs dependencies.

Are you in a situation where you would be stressed paying for these things out of pocket?

I can tell you that TRT made me a better person for those around me and many others here would agree. So there is also the QOL for others in your life as well as yourself.

If you are wanting to do cycles and resolve that you will do TRT if that is needed as a consequence - Many BB types are doing that. I do not know if it is safe to conclude that the QOL on TRT is as good as QOL not needing TRT. For those of us who do not have a choice, we have faced a lot of QOL issues and understand that TRT does not solve all problems.


#19

KSman,

Thank you for the detail...

I'm partly concerned about costs, and partly concerned about the simple fact of dependency. I don't mind using drugs of any kind as tools where they are appropriate, but I would be very disappointed with a dependency relationship.

It merits a lot of consideration before I consider cycling again. My next step is ti try to nail down any increased risk associated with AAS use.