T Nation

#refugeeswelcome


#1

There is currently a huge influx of migrants into various European countries from not only Syria but a large number of other nationalities which are not at war.

What are your thoughts on this?

The UK stated they would not be taking any but there has been a huge outcry after a young boy was washed up dead in the sea and the Government has backtracked overnight. Social media is also ablaze over this death with the hashtag #refugeeswelcome.

Personally I think Europe/the West should not be taking these people in. Saudia Arabia/Kuwait/Dubai etc have taken in precisely zero (according to Amnesty).

They are going to be bringing a totally alien culture and few benefits at all. As just one example thousands are refusing to stay in Hungary and instead demanding/rioting to go to Austria. This doesn't sound like the behaviours of desperate refugees to me.

But maybe I am totally wrong, am interested to hear your thoughts.


#2

Arab spring! Democracy in the middle east! Hooray!


#3

[quote]Alrightmiami19c wrote:
Arab spring! Democracy in the middle east! Hooray!
[/quote]

The people in government who believe this are fools. Seriously, for oil money or whatever the hell we thought we could achieve by bringing anarchy to a fourth of the world, what idiots!


#4

[quote]Alrightmiami19c wrote:
Arab spring! Democracy in the middle east! Hooray!
[/quote]

This. They “Spring” into your backyard.

Hillary can hang her pantsuit on this.

It all goes back to Libya. Everything.


#5

Send them all back with a machine gun and 2 full magazines.


#6

[quote]TheCB wrote:
The UK stated they would not be taking any but there has been a huge outcry after a young boy was washed up dead in the sea and the Government has backtracked overnight. Social media is also ablaze over this death with the hashtag #refugeeswelcome.
[/quote]

All propaganda must be popular and its intellectual level must be adjusted to the most limited intelligence among those it is addressed to.

Consequently, the greater the mass it is intended to reach, the lower its purely intellectual level will have to be.

The more modest its intellectual ballast, the more exclusively it takes into consideration the emotions of the masses, the more effective it will be.


#7

They say a picture paints a thousand words. You can add another thousand and more in this instance. Whatever your feelings are regarding migrants this picture sums up the sheer misery a lot of these poor people face in an attempt to live a better life. To see this young boy lying face down in the sand as if he were asleep with the clothes his mother probably dressed him that morning, his little shoes and shorts and his red t-shirt…so sad.

This particular family fled Kobani the site of recent isil and peshmerga fighting. You can reserach more about this family and the tragedies that have befallen them as a result of war but in this instance the father lost his two young boys and his wife, in front of his eyes, only to go back home to bury them with no desire to leave again…

I think what struck most people, white european people, and I dont think a lot of people would like to admit it, is the fact that this poor little fella looks just like their child or children they know… The media has been filled with images of black african men crammed onto boats, or middle eastern men crammed onto trains and buses fighting for position but rarely do we see the young children in all this, until now, when their plight has been brought into sharp focus by this upsetting image.

Their countries thrown into the depths of war by in part by the very nations who now refuse them asylum. It is a fucked up situation and I have no answers but our humanity must prevail here…


#8

This is a completely fucked up situation with a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” dilemma.

I was a refugee once for a few months during the war in former Yugoslavia, as our house was destroyed by shelling and overrun by the Yugoslav Army. I have to admit, and I’m ashamed to admit it, that something irks me about the behavior of the refugees I see in the media.

When we were in Austria that winter, I distinctly remember the behavior of other refugees, almost exclusively women and children - they were dazed, sitting on gym mattresses mechanically eating the food provided, most of the elderly women quietly sobbing. For us kids and young teenagers it was fun in a weird sort of way, so many people crammed in one space and so much going on you’d constantly be running around.

There were no long term plans. People tried to contact relatives living in Western Europe and the US, stretch out the meager savings brought with them. No one among us cared that we were in a shitty suburb of a small nondescript Austrian town, just that we were alive, warm and had something to sleep on. The main concern was that it was December and that we’d miss out the rest of the school year and fall behind.

On the other hand, I see here radically different behavior from these refugees, many of them obviously not Syrian. They are organized with the clear goal of reaching Germany, Austria or Sweden. Nothing less will do for them and they tend to become belligerent VERY easily. I don’t know, perhaps the times have changed.

Most of them tend to burn their ID’s and passports before crossing from Serbia into Hungary and refuse to be processed there as it would mean they would be repatriated to Hungary should their asylum request be denied. What’s wrong with Hungary if you just escaped war? From what I could gleam from the media, the majority are young men and quite a lot have a past history detention and deportation from other EU countries.

Also, these people have paid considerable sums even by Western standards to smugglers, crossed five or six countries to reach Macedonia, Serbia and Hungary. Busing them to “desired” Austria means that you shafting thousands of Syrians in camps in Turkey and Lebanon waiting for their asylum applications to be processed and rewarding “initiative” via smuggler’s channels.

But then I see pictures of women trudging along the roads with children in their hands…

So I don’t know, I’m split on the issue along rational/emotional lines.


#9

[quote]SLAINGE wrote:

This particular family fled Kobani the site of recent isil and peshmerga fighting.[/quote]

The family were in Turkey trying to get to Greece. Turkey is not at war, why were they trying to go to Greece? Also, you do not even need to cross the sea from Turkey to get to Greece. Why put this child on such a dangerous raft in the first place?

A tragic story but it is the fault of the father that his child is dead for taking these risks.

Also, your generalisation that the majority of Europeans are racist is so insulting! What makes you think that people are more upset cos this kid looks more white than brown or black. It is these kind of lazy negative views of Europe that I find so annoying.


#10

[quote]TheCB wrote:

[quote]SLAINGE wrote:

This particular family fled Kobani the site of recent isil and peshmerga fighting.[/quote]

The family were in Turkey trying to get to Greece. Turkey is not at war, why were they trying to go to Greece? Also, you do not even need to cross the sea from Turkey to get to Greece. Why put this child on such a dangerous raft in the first place?

A tragic story but it is the fault of the father that his child is dead for taking these risks.

Also, your generalisation that the majority of Europeans are racist is so insulting! What makes you think that people are more upset cos this kid looks more white than brown or black. It is these kind of lazy negative views of Europe that I find so annoying.[/quote]

You obviously failed to do a quick Google before you typed your inaccurate response to the origins of this family and the journey they embarked on before tragedy struck them.

You failed again as to why their loving father needed to remove his family from their war torn home GO LOOK UP KOBANI

There has been many fatalities from other nations but this has hit home the hardest, why…?

It reminds me of the freach journalist in the movie shooting dogs starring John Hurt when she explained that reporting the atrocities from Rwanda didn’t have the same impact as the atrocities witnessed in the Bosnian Serbian conflict because she could relate to the faces she saw lying dead in the street. People are racist it’s a human condition, it’s the degree of racism that differs. Lazy no, reality yes.

Typing on a phone can’t continue…


#11

[quote]SLAINGE wrote:

[quote]TheCB wrote:

[quote]SLAINGE wrote:

This particular family fled Kobani the site of recent isil and peshmerga fighting.[/quote]

The family were in Turkey trying to get to Greece. Turkey is not at war, why were they trying to go to Greece? Also, you do not even need to cross the sea from Turkey to get to Greece. Why put this child on such a dangerous raft in the first place?

A tragic story but it is the fault of the father that his child is dead for taking these risks.

Also, your generalisation that the majority of Europeans are racist is so insulting! What makes you think that people are more upset cos this kid looks more white than brown or black. It is these kind of lazy negative views of Europe that I find so annoying.[/quote]

You obviously failed to do a quick Google before you typed your inaccurate response to the origins of this family and the journey they embarked on before tragedy struck them.

You failed again as to why their loving father needed to remove his family from their war torn home GO LOOK UP KOBANI

There has been many fatalities from other nations but this has hit home the hardest, why…?

It reminds me of the freach journalist in the movie shooting dogs starring John Hurt when she explained that reporting the atrocities from Rwanda didn’t have the same impact as the atrocities witnessed in the Bosnian Serbian conflict because she could relate to the faces she saw lying dead in the street. People are racist it’s a human condition, it’s the degree of racism that differs. Lazy no, reality yes.

Typing on a phone can’t continue…
[/quote]

I honestly don’t know what you are going on about. They were in Turkey trying to get to Greece. They were no longer in a warzone, far from it.

The “racism” aspect is equally as strange. People are upset cos it is a 3 year old. His race is irrelevant unless you have fucking ANYTHING to base this slur that the majority of people in Europe (hundreds of millions) would care less if it was an African or Chinese kid you really should be quiet.

And again, as sad as it is, the child’s father put him on an extremely dangerous raft from Turkey to Greece. Why did he do this? Turkey is not at war. Why recklessly endanger a 3 year olds life in this way? A tragedy no doubt, but extremely stupid behaviour on his part.


#12

Who are these refugees exactly? How do you know they are not fighters or terrorists? It’s a dumb thing to let them come and they will harm the place where they go. Everybody is saying we should be compassionate and help them come, but how about they become compassionate and stop killing each other in their country in the first place? Stay there and fix your problems. They have a coward entitled attitude.

Every countries has their problems they try to fix. When everybody who lives in Europe will have a decent live, food security and shelter then they should allow others to come in.

So a 3 years old kid died. Why? Because his mom decided to do something dangerous. It was her choice. A bunch of these migrant kids have probably for father someone who killed a bunch of other people’s kid anyway. Suddently when a swine makes a kid he is entitled to everything.


#13

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:

[quote]Alrightmiami19c wrote:
Arab spring! Democracy in the middle east! Hooray!
[/quote]

This. They “Spring” into your backyard.

Hillary can hang her pantsuit on this.

It all goes back to Libya. Everything. [/quote]

Are you guys against democracy or what? What is the link between Hilary Clinton and the fact that some groups and interests are fighting for power after the revolution and ‘‘stole’’ it and there is now war? That’s typical republican craziness.


#14

[quote]jasmincar wrote:

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:

[quote]Alrightmiami19c wrote:
Arab spring! Democracy in the middle east! Hooray!
[/quote]

This. They “Spring” into your backyard.

Hillary can hang her pantsuit on this.

It all goes back to Libya. Everything. [/quote]

Are you guys against democracy or what? What is the link between Hilary Clinton and the fact that some groups and interests are fighting for power after the revolution and ‘‘stole’’ it and there is now war? That’s typical republican craziness.[/quote]

I’m not against democracy, but it’s naive to believe Muslims will vote for “moderates” who want to live peacefully with their neighbors and get along with everybody. Knowing their history would tell you otherwise.


#15

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


#16

[quote]SLAINGE wrote:

[quote]TheCB wrote:

[quote]SLAINGE wrote:

This particular family fled Kobani the site of recent isil and peshmerga fighting.[/quote]

The family were in Turkey trying to get to Greece. Turkey is not at war, why were they trying to go to Greece? Also, you do not even need to cross the sea from Turkey to get to Greece. Why put this child on such a dangerous raft in the first place?

A tragic story but it is the fault of the father that his child is dead for taking these risks.

Also, your generalisation that the majority of Europeans are racist is so insulting! What makes you think that people are more upset cos this kid looks more white than brown or black. It is these kind of lazy negative views of Europe that I find so annoying.[/quote]

You obviously failed to do a quick Google before you typed your inaccurate response to the origins of this family and the journey they embarked on before tragedy struck them.

You failed again as to why their loving father needed to remove his family from their war torn home GO LOOK UP KOBANI

There has been many fatalities from other nations but this has hit home the hardest, why…?

It reminds me of the freach journalist in the movie shooting dogs starring John Hurt when she explained that reporting the atrocities from Rwanda didn’t have the same impact as the atrocities witnessed in the Bosnian Serbian conflict because she could relate to the faces she saw lying dead in the street. People are racist it’s a human condition, it’s the degree of racism that differs. Lazy no, reality yes.

Typing on a phone can’t continue…
[/quote]

You obviously failed to do a quick Google before you typed your inaccurate response to the origins of this family and the journey they embarked on before tragedy struck them.


#17

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


#18

These poor people. All the world should open its arms to them.


#19

[quote]pushharder wrote:

Muslim Refugees Chant “Allahu Akbar,” “Fuckk You,” Attack Citizens, Throw Feces

The footage that TV networks don’t broadcast


[/quote]

Unfortunately, I’m starting to lean that way. Went on a business trip to a city in Austria yesterday, walked through a park crowded with small groups of refugees - idle young men huddling together, silently staring at anyone passing through.

It seemed most of the locals decided to walk the extra mile and a half around the park instead of passing through.

Noticed immediately that most of them weren’t Arab. My brother, who was deployed with ISAF in Afghanistan and was alongside me said something each time he made eye contact with those men, after which they quietly backed off. I asked him what he said and this was his response: “I’m saying “fuck off” in Dari because these guys are Tajiks and Pashtuns from Afghanistan”

Women and children should be helped and cared for, but it seems that the men in general are very unhappy when provided only with three cooked meals a day and adequate, clean accommodation, but instead want instant asylum?

Meanwhile, the Saudi government offered help. What kind of help? To build 200 new mosques in Germany for these new refugees. Beyond belief.

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.faz.net%2Faktuell%2Fpolitik%2Ffluechtlingskrise%2Fdie-golfstaaten-schotten-sich-gegenueber-fluechtlingen-ab-13789932.html&edit-text=&act=url


#20

It should be interesting to compare and contrast how the Germans integrate this flood of immigrants into their society vs. the way the English and French have.

While the Germans are acutely aware of their past…they tend to be more pragmatic and firm with issues, even social ones…

Am I wrong here?

What do you guys think?

Mufasa