T Nation

Reference for controlled tests

I would like to see some reference(s) where thermogenics has been scientifically tested on humans where there are both control (placebo)and experimental groups. I’m looking for scientific rather than anecdotal evidence for the effectiveness. Thank you

These have been done. I recall EC stacks beating out some prescription drugs in a few studies. Sorry, don’t have the refs handy.

One important thing to remember is that “fat burners” work in other ways other than boosting metabolism. For example, they can curb cravings, and that can’t be measured on a standard test. Or they may make you feel like training, or train with more energy. Again, can’t really be scientifically tested.

cant you do research for yourself, it aint difficult!!!


there tis easy for u

Go to infortrieve.com and do a search for ephedrine, ephedra, Ma huang, thermogenic, caffeine and you will find > 20 studies. You can also goto the Council for Responsible Nutrition’s website crnusa.org and get the refs that you seek.

I perfer to call fat burners “fat inhibitors” instead. i agree totally with paul as far as giving you more energy for a harder workout and appetite suppressant, that alone makes it worth it to me to take as a means of dieting. but, there is two types of “fat burners”… 1, MD6, and 2, everything else. because all other fat burners are just the same. just take MD6 and don’t worry about it so much.

They work! Simple as that. So just drop thirty bucks on one and i am sure you will be pleased with the results. Because i am sure no one on this forum is gonna go out of their way to get you references. Take chances and don’t come off as some skeptical psycho who needs tons of evidence before they try something.

Look up “the Ultimate Diet Pill” article on the T-mag search engine. It is well referenced.

bump for either Bill, Jason Norcross, Shugs, or whoever else might have some knowledge in this field

Id be interested in seeing some of these tests as well. I must say I have tried Hydroxycut before and did have some success with it. I mean all it does is or what it is supposed to do is speed up your metabolism and heart rate to help intensify workouts and help to digest food quicker, as well as suppress one’s appetite. Maybe this isnt the most healthy way to do it because after all the natural way of losing weight and getting cut is the best way to go.
Later Papa C.

Thanks for the info. I have searched the National Institute of Health sites as recommended. There is not a single relevant article I could find on controlled tests on healthy people with controls on placebos and experimentals with thermogenic diet and drugs recommended here. There were 1500 articles, but none connected to what we discuss here.
I am concerned that no one can simply give me a reference or 2 or 3 that answer my question.
The t-mag reference lists I have seen, include mostly articles unrelated to support or rejection of the various claims.

Go to the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition and do a search with the key word “epdedra”. A review article on herbals and performance should come up written by Lucci (this article was supported by Weider, but is well referenced and should give you some leads to other articles). There is at least 20-30 references to ephedrine and thermogenic supplements. Also, those articles should lead you to more articles.
The journal reference to the above article is: Luke R Bucci

“Selected herbals and human exercise performance”

Am J Clin Nutr 2000 72: 624S-636S

Also, there has been a very recent artilce published that demonstrated ephedrine’s safety, but I don’t have the reference available right now. I’ll post it when I get the chance.

In Dr Michael Colgan’s book, Optimum Spotrs Nutrition, he evaluates various studies of ephedrine vs. placebo.

Thank you for the references. I have received and read the Bucci article and checked several of the references from that article. Interestingly enough, the article says research is needed because the controlled tests showed no significant increase in the various measures of metabolism and exercise ability unless caffeine is added. The one case where there was a significant increase in exercise ability, ephedra was combined with caffeine and other, undefined herbals. Thus, there is no conclusion that can be made about the ephedra and caffeine alone.
This was a very valuable article. Thanks again.

Do the search on pubmed (I gave the link above)

In the search parameters try ephedrine, caffeine, thermogenesis, Dulloo etc

Just ephedrine by itself will return 3237 hits, with some good current ones from May issue of International Journal of Obesity and Related Metabolic Disorders.

Thanks for the feedback. I did a quick search at AJCN and came up with the article, skimmed it, and looked at the references. It seemed like a good place to start. That is usually my goal when researching a certain topic - find a review style article and work backwards through their references. I would like to hear what you find. I have done very little personal research into thermogenics, but I have seen several quick write ups in Muscle Media’s Research Section regarding the efficacy of some products. As I mentioned before, I would like to hear if you come up with a conclusion on these products. The anectdotal support is huge, so it would be great to back it up with the journal articles. Glad I could help.

I’ll dig up some more of the articles. My interest in the support articles has to do with the fact not that I want to be ornery or contrary, but that I am scientifically trained (through Ph.D.) and if there has been anything pounded into me, it is to be a skeptic.
I’ve been a competitive power lifter in my 30s and early 40s (I’m 55 now), and my son, a budding, natural bodybuilder has brought t-mag to my attention.
I am trying to instill into my son a level of healthy skepticism and a reasonable disdain for anecdotal evidence. If anecdotal evidence is to be trusted, we may as well just call Miss Cleo. After all, there is a lot of anecdotal evidence to support her “interesting” claims.
To me, a double or sometimes single blind test with placebo controls and experimental groups, with statistiscally significant results, is the defining evidence for the efficacy of any drug, herbal or synthetic.
Thanks again for your responses.

look at the recent study published by Boozer et al in the Internation J Obesity. It is a 6 month study evaluating E+C vs placebo on many aspects of health, body weight & composition. It was just published, the full length may be available through www.nutritionbusinessinsider.com Altyernatively see infotrieve.com or scibase.com

There have been published “thermogenic” studies evaluating effects versus placebo on metabolism, body weight/composition, cardiovascular system, CNS effects and so much more. I know, I have published >5 in peer-reviewed journals with a new one coming out in August in the Int J Obesity. I do not think that you are looking hard enough

Toubro S, Astrup AV, Breum L, Quaade F. Safety and efficacy of long-term treatment with ephedrine, caffeine and an ephedrine/caffeine mixture Int J Obes 1993; 17 Suppl 1: S69-S72… . . .OTHER REFERENCE: Daly PA, Krieger DR, Dulloo AG, Young JB, Landsberg L. Ephedrine, caffeine and aspirin: safety and efficacy for treatment of human obesity. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 1993 Feb;17 Suppl 1:S73-8

Did you check Doug’s link? Unfortunately, he slightly mispelled it. It’s infotrieve.com

Fuck! I misspelled “misspelled”!