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Reducing LDL Cholesterol

I’ve always had high LDL cholesterol, even going back to my teenage years, it’s been on a slow creep upwards the last several, it was 132 last year, it’s 147 now. My HDL is always at 60 or 61, and Triglycerides below 100, was at 53 this year.

I’m not really sure what to do about the LDL. I don’t have a VLDL # to give unfortunately. My diet is pretty much 0 processed food, mostly vegetables, with protein from powder, lean ground beef, liver, and whole-milk greek yogurt. I don’t use any cooking oils, aside from a tablespoon of EVOO on my meat at lunch. I also eat .5 oz of Macadamia nuts, .5 oz of walnuts, and .5 oz of almonds every weekday. Other fat sources include 1 raw egg per day in my morning shake, along with 2 Tbls of PB, and a tablespoon of coconut oil in my morning shakes. Overall I get about 30-35g of saturated fat per day, obviously most from the coconut oil. I don’t really want to cut any of that stuff out, and I thought coconut oil was medium-chain so it wouldn’t raise my cholesterol any. Any ideas on what to do here?

I also have high LDL but was able to see an improvement after incorporating ground flax seed into my shakes. The fiber and omega 3 and 9’s probably helped.

You’re eating beef, whole milk, and coconut oil… This is not a mystery.

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Or you could just enjoy your lower cancer risk…

I find cholesterol to be a mystery. For years my total cholesterol has been right at 170. In 2017, it jumped to almost 220. From my appointment in June through December, I cut out most of my chicken and egg consumption. My cholesterol dropped back to 170.

I had my labs done again this July (first time since that 170 reading in Dec '17) and my cholesterol was back to 213. My LDL was 131. My HDL is around 60. My doctor said she’s not worried because my ratios are good.

The first time I had an increase, I asked the doc about correcting it with diet and she said people can only affect their cholesterol by about 10%. The body makes most of our cholesterol. From 170 to 220 and back to 170, my only changes were the chicken. I had started eating more chicken when it spiked and I removed it to get it back down.

I’m reducing my chicken consumption again to see if it helps. I suspect there is something in the food that I have been eating that is causing my body to make more cholesterol. Food can have unseen negative effects on the body such as inflammation. My theory is that my body is reacting to something that I think is “good”, but has bad stuff in it. I’ve even been eating a cleaner form of chicken this go around, but I still suspect it’s the culprit.

Consider the sources of your food. Is it full of hormones or other crap that’s not food? Why do you still consume milk? Mammals only need milk as babies. Contrary to what the milk industry says, we don’t need it. Dairy cows are fed crap like corn that they can’t process. As a result, their bodies produce mucous and puss. Guess where that goes - into their milk. And then we drink it. Gross.

Don’t worry about the cholesterol content of your food; think about how it’s raised/grown and try to figure out if there’s extra junk in there that may not be good for our bodies.

LDL Particle Size

Your LDL number alone mean nothing. What matters is your LDL Particle Size.

High Particle A LDL is good. High Particle B is bad.

Physicians can test for this but they don’t, nor do they educate you on it. .

However, one way of determining if you LDL is good or back is to calculate your…

Triglyceride:HDL Ratio

A 2.0 reading and under is very good. A reading of around 4.0 means you have a problem.

The radio is determined by dividing your HDL into your Triglycerides.

Base on your numbers, your ratio is 0.88 which is excellent. You have a higher percentage of the good Particle A LDL and lower percentage of the bad Particle B.

The Two Prime Stand Alone Numbers

Your Total Cholesterol Number and your LDL Number alone mean nothing.

The two primary stand alone number that are the most important are your HDL and Triglycerides.

High HDL is good. Low Triglycerides are good.

Another number that is important is your

Remnant Cholesterol

A reading of 20 or below means you have a really good score.

Remnant Cholesterol: Total Cholesterol - (HDL + LDL).

You didn’t provide your Total Cholesterol. Working backward with your HDL, LDL and Triglycerides, I calculated your Total Cholesterol is 204.

204 Total Cholesterol - (132 LDL + 60 HDL) = 12, a great number.

You Don’t Have A Problem

You have an excellent blood profile.

The problem is that you and the majority have been misled into believing that a high LDL number is something bad, which is incorrect.

The determinate factor of if you LDL is good or bad is your percentage of Particle A and Particle B LDL.

Unfortunately, individuals with a low LDL number with high Particle B and low Particle A Number believe they are in good heath but aren’t.

On A Personal Note

Due to a metabolic condition, I’ve been on the Ketogenic Diet for over three years. I eat a lot of saturated fat.

My saturated fat is get up to 100 gram plus per day.

My LDL and Total Cholesterol is high. My Triglycerides are low and my HDL is in the moderate zone.

My Triglyceride:HDL Number and Remnant Cholesterol Number is basically the same as yours on a high fat, high saturated fat diet.

Take Home Message

The most important numbers are…

  1. Triglyceride:HDL Ratio

  2. Remnant Cholesterol

There is some good online information on these.

Kenny Croxdale

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The first time I had an increase, I asked the doc about correcting it with diet and she said people can only affect their cholesterol by about 10%. The body makes most of our cholesterol.[/quote]

Good Information

You have a good doctor.

Kenny Croxdale

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I have 208 total, 68 HDL, 129 LDL, 57mg Triglycerides. Good info. ^^

Of course, the “standard” robot marking on my blood report has my total and LDL marked as “high”.

AWESOME reply, I’m learning so much in this thread.

Thank you!

I remember after my blood test and the “high” LDL number, I did some googling, and realized the LDL # is BS. It’s a derivative number, it’s not actually being measured by the blood test most people take.

This is the common formula used for LDL: LDL cholesterol (mg/dL) = total cholesterol – HDL cholesterol – (triglycerides/5)

SO, believe it or not, if you have shitty (high) triglycerides levels, that formula lowers your LDL number. Conversely, a good (low) triglycerides level will raise the LDL number.

Crazy, huh?

edit to add: I didn’t dismiss my “high” #s out of hand because I’m that guy, but I knew to focus on HDL and triglycerides; but I was bothered by the “high” LDL, which is when I discovered the “LDL formula” was derivative, and nonsensical for people with low triglycerides levels.

Prime Stand Alone Numbers

For a quick cursory reading, the primary numbers that give you immediate feed back are your Triglycerides and HDL

Your Triglycerides of 57 and HDL of 68 are excellent.

Triglyceride:HDL Ratio. Yours is 0.83. Under 2.0 is good.

Remnant Cholesterol: Yours is 11. Under 20 is good.

LDL Number

Yes, on the standard blood test your number is regarded as high.

The problem is that just looking at your LDL number does not tell you if you’re in the good or bad zone, so to speak.

That is determined by knowing if you have more good Particle A or bad Particle B.

Secondly, higher LDL, providing it is primarily composed of the good Particle A, has some health benefits.

’Bad’ cholesterol not as bad as people think, study shows

This research demonstrated that elevated LDL (the right type) increased muscle mass.

*Steve Riechman, Journal of Gerontology

"…adults from ages to 60 to 69* who were in generally good health but not physically active, and none of them were participating in a training program. The study showed that after fairly vigorous workouts, participants who had gained the most muscle mass also had the highest levels of LDL (bad) cholesterol, “a very unexpected result and one that surprised us.”

“…you do need a certain amount of LDL to gain more muscle mass.”

“…the more LDL you have in your blood, the better you are able to build muscle during resistance training.”

Dave Feldman

Feldman has articles and podcasts that delve into how high LDL (the good kind) helps with the healing process and prevents diseases.

The Cholesterol Myths

This research is one of many that demonstrated that older individuals with higher cholesterol numbers live longer; that in part due to higher a good LDL number that increase healing and wards off disease.

Perpetuation Of Misinformation

Many physicians are not up to date on the new research on cholesterol. They continue to perpetuate misinformation along with TV ads from drug companies telling you that high LDL is going to kill you unless you get their drug and live on it for the rest of your life.

Research shows this isn’t true.

However, the research is drowned out by the under educated physicians and massive advertising of the drug companies.

As the saying goes, “If you scream it loud enough and long enough. people believe it.”

Kenny Croxdale

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Yes and no. Eating more or less cholesterol only has about a 10% impact. Cholesterol production rises in the body when you have more inflammation, especially in blood vessel, but sometimes from other organs. The body raises cholesterol as a HEALING factor for the inflammation. A cholesterol of 200-220 in an otherwise healthy man is normal and good, and less than 170 may start to result in lower testosterone and reduced survival. The exception is that if you have already had a heart attack, or show severe blockage on a heart image your body may have been in an inflammatory loop for a long time making extra cholesterol and basically malfunctioning. In that severe case, reducing cholesterol reduces the risk of additional heart attack.

So if you eat more inflammatory foods it may push your cholesterol up in an attempt to undo the damage. Its a natural process. Cholesterol is a sign, not a cause of blood vessel inflammation. It reverses it. Cholesterol also is important for the brain. Members of primitive tribes with long “natural” lifespans typically see their cholesterol levels rise as they age up into the lower to mid 200s.

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Good post. Notice too that as the first generation of cholesterol lowering medications have gone generic, the producers have started to release “new” research that they aren’t good. The same drug companies that had a boatload of data showing that they worked when they had exclusive rights to sell them. Now they are using contradictory data that they have been sitting on all along to convince doctors to switch patients to the new drugs.

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This is the theory I’ve adopted. I’m eating something that has crap ingredients or has been manipulated by man, and that’s causing my body to produce more cholesterol.

Interesting. In 2017 (my first spike) I was going through the process of figuring out what was wrong with my hip. I eventually had surgery to repair a torn labrum, but that was right after I had my recheck and everything was back to normal (170).

This year my labs were one month after my shoulder surgery.

Any chance my cholesterol is connected to my injuries?

I’ve always been under the impression the ‘cholesterol leading to heart attacks’ theory was incorrect or at least incomplete.

I was diagnosed at 23 with high cholesterol and put on lipitor. Sure, it brought my cholesterol down to acceptable levels but doing the training I did/do the muscle cramps were unacceptable. It was my thought the statin was impairing my body’s ability to heal muscle tissue as well as any other tissue that needs cholesterol to repair itself(hint: every cell in the body uses cholesterol in production of its plasma membrane).

I heavily studied Dr. Matthias Rath(a protege of Linus Pauling) who believed atherosclerosis is due to essentially scurvy occurring in the arteries leading to breakdown of the endothelium which leads to plaque buildup to the point of occlusion or a thrombosis. His theory is with enough vitamin C, lysine and proline the arteries will heal and then remove the plaques.

More recent study is showing linoleic acid is a major determinant of oxidized cholesterol(a toxic compound to the artery walls). One compound derived exclusively from linoleic acid has been determined to be the underlying cause but as I’ve said in another thread on this exact topic, correlation isn’t causation and so far the research isn’t there to say it definitively.

Hopefully with enough push from competent doctors and researchers they’ll finally get a more in depth and complete theory in place to properly diagnose and treat patients instead of just throwing EVERYONE on a statin.

Coming from you, that means a lot.

Coronary Artery Calcium ( CAC ) Scoring.

Something that fall in line with this is, the Coronary Artery Calcium ( CAC ) Scoring. I have a little knowledge but not enough to go into it.

This fall more into your area and would be a nice addition to this discussion.

New and Improved

Yea, marketing something as new and improved works across the board on medication and everything else.

For some reason, people believe that something that is new and improved means is better; which may or may not be the case.

The Problem

The problem with new and improved medication is that you never really find out the negative side effects until they have been out for a long period of time.

Individual who are the first to get the new and improved medication become the new guinea pigs.

What I find interesting is you pay (for the medication) the privilege of of being a guinea pig for the drug companies and physicians. This doesn’t make sense.

Examples of that are…

  1. Fen-Phen. The drug that worked for weight loss but cause heart problems.

  2. Oxycodone: The miracle drug for pain that cause addition.

Tried and Verified

Thing that have been around for a fairly long period of time have a “Track Record History”. We have a greater knowledge of their benefits and side effects and how they work.

With new and improved medication (cars, computers, fitness equipment, etc.), essentially move clinical trials one step up the chain to the public.

Basically a larger group, the public, is now part of the clinical study.

The Take Home Message

With anything new, it’s better to wait and see how it works for in the “Public Clinical Trial” rather than becoming one of the guinea pigs.

Kenny Croxdale

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High cholesterol is very possibly hypothyroidism, read Dr Broda Barnes about it.

You’re also eating too much saturated fat so that your LDL receptors are shut down.

Generally speaking, too much XYZ in the serum means that the cell is busy. E.g the patient should fast for a bit, readjust TDEE, eat better, do more cardio. Or - back to square 1 - it could be a matter of thyroid, which is also bound to nutrition: make sure you’re eating plenty of vitamins and minerals while calories are kept in check

Not High Cholesterol

AccipiterQ’s cholesterol reading is very good. His numbers are…

  1. Total Cholesterol 204: The recommendation is that it be below 200.

However, the Total Cholesterol number alone means nothing.

  1. HDL 60. This is a great number. It is a stand alone number with relevance.

  2. LDL 132. This is another stand alone number that tells you nothing. The determinate factors of if you high or low LDL number is healthy is the percentage of good Particle A or bad Particle B.

Thus, a if you having a high LDL number with a high percentage of good Particle A, you have not problem.

On the other hand, if you have a low LDL number with a high percentage of Particle B, you have a problem.

  1. Triglycerides 53: This is an exceptionally great number. Triglycerides are a stand alone number that is relevant.

[quote=“tontongg, post:17, topic:259640”]…You’re also eating too much saturated fat…
[/quote]

Saturated Fat

Yes, saturated fat increases your LDL However, to reiterate, that is not a concern providing your percentage of good Particle A is high and bad Particle B is low.

Secondly, higher LDL prevents disease and assist with healing. Research (post 11) found, "…the more LDL you have in your blood, the better you are able to build muscle during resistance training.”. LDL ensure faster muscle repair and recovery from training, healing…

Elevated HDL With Saturated Fat

Ironically, saturated fat also increases your HDL number.

Important Number Calculations

As reference is post #11, two primary calculations are keys determining your cardiovascular health…

  1. Triglyceride:HDL Ratio

  2. Remnant Cholesterol.

My Blood Lipid Profile

My last reading was a Total Cholesterol of 223 and LDL of 163, above what is incorrectly recommended.

However, my Triglyceride:HDL Ratio was 1.33 (under 2.0 is very good) and my Remnant Cholesterol was 15 (under 20 is very good).

I am on the Ketogenic Diet due to a metabolic condition. I consume over 100 gram of Saturated Fat per day and have no cardiovascular health issues.

Take Home Message

A Blood Lipid Profile means nothing unless you know how to read it.

The information that I have provide can be quickly and easily found online.

Kenny Croxdale

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It all basically means that you’re hypothyroid, just like virtually anyone on a ketogenic diet. I wasn’t necessarily too concerned over OPs numbers, and I don’t give too many fucks (actually I give precisely zero) about N=1 examples, I’m speaking in general terms.

Convince yourself however you want, when lipids are trashed it’s the thyroid we should look at. You’ll get the proper education and/or information one day I hope.

I’m also adding that generally speaking, having some knowledge about a metabolic condition and etiology doesn’t make one knowledgeable about a healthy metabolism, most likely the opposite as there’s strong siding with biased sciencey con artists.

Many MDs seem to forget their biochemistry classes altogether since there’s a decent number of them pushing for less carb / more fats in an already outrageously high fat culture