T Nation

Reduce Test, Increase Mast?

My current TRT protocol:

96mg Test weekly
.25 Adex daily
250iu HCG twice weekly

I feel good with this however I have long term concerns using AI but I have to use if I want to keep my E2 optimal. I seem to aromatize a bit even with my Test dose being on a lower end.

My suggestion: lower the Test dose where my E2 settles in close to optimal and the rest of the dose I make up with Mast, since it doesn’t convert to estrogen. Eliminate AI altogether.


50mg Test Weekly
46mg Mast weekly
250iu HCG twice weekly

The goal is to eliminate AI usage altogether.

Tell me what you guys think.

I don’t think I would have an E2 above 5 on that protocol.

This however, would have my E2 at ~0. Do you have blood work supporting this protocol?

Yes, consistently clocking in E2 between high 20s to mid 30s. Quest range is <39. Without adex ive tested 40s

Did you feel worse at high E2?

When taking exogenous test, I think for most a ratio of Test to E2 makes the most sense. I feel good if both are high, but not good if one or the other is high in relation to the other. I have heard most people feel well if the ratio is 15-20:1.

E2 is cardio protective, and has other benefits. AIs has been been shown to lower GH and IGF-1 levels.

Others will likely tell you to only use an AI if you have to. I would consider getting gyno, having a constant moon face, and ED as reasons to use an AI. Other than that I probably would let you body decide what E2 level it wants.

Honestly I feel fine with or without AI, however I have bit of a BPH so I want to keep E2 at bay. Also, I’ve read a study that showed the neuro-protective benefits of Test are completely negated by AI. Hence my reasoning for lowering the Test and making up the difference with a relatively safe non aromatizable androgen such as Mast.

You could try turmeric for the BPH. It is supposed to be effective.

Mast is not the worst thing to run. I am not sure about running it long term though. It generally is pretty harsh on lipids, and hairline. It is also has anti-estrogenic properties. I would be afraid of crashing estrogen if only running test at 50 mg, and mast close to 50 mg.

I’ve tried bunch of otc stuff and it doesn’t do jack.

50mg and 50mg are just rough examples. The amount of Test would be dictated by settling E2. Who knows, I may need more Test to reach mid to high 20s on E2 without AI. I hope you see my point.

As far as lipids go I am not sure if Mast is any much worse than test. At least at the doses I am suggesting. I know that both mast and even test at supra doses will fuck with lipids.

Hairline is a concern for sure. Although Test is rated 100/100 on anabolic/androgenic ratio while Mast is 63/25. Or perhaps these ratings mean jack shit in real world application. I’ve never used Mast so I can’t say. Any input is great.

Thanks for replying by the way.

It does not mean much in with regard to hair loss. Test is more androgenic on paper, but you will most likely see more hair loss on Mast.

You notice a marked improvement on BPH with the AI?

I thought so.

I’ve noticed flare ups are less frequent.

I am not trying to say that nobody needs an AI. I think most don’t.

Are you sure your AI is real? .25 ED on 100 mg of test would crash almost everyone. I for example can see a 10 point drop in E2 from one dose of Adex at .125 mg. I just have never seen anyone only go from 40s to mid 20s with that high of a dose (almost everyone would go to 0).

Another option to look at is DIM. It is not an AI, but increases the speed at which the body flushes E2.

It’s pharmacy grade from my local Walgreens.

I am sorry but you are wrong about crashing down to zero. Clinical studies show 60% reduction at the most with Adex. And that it is a dose of 1 mg per day.

I think you’re focusing too much on numbers and that you’ve controlled you E2 for so long you don’t know how you feel at a higher level.

This is a lab result where I stopped all E2 control and I felt great, erections, libido, everything is great. I know this stuff is individualistic but don’t get hung up on numbers.

I’m not attacking you. I used to run adex all the time trying to chase some “optimal number”. I dont take anything and havent for some time. For the record, I cruise 250 Test and 100 Mast/week

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I feel good with or without anastrozole. I am chasing a lower E2 number because I know my prostate is better on it. If I didn’t have BPH I wouldn’t give two shits about my estradiol number in the 40s and would never use AI

I guess I’m not sure I agree with the impacts of E2 on prostate. I have what I think are normal prostate issues for a 55 year old man. I get up MAYBE once a night to piss or not at all. I take cialis for any other issues (since that is what is was originally created for) and I enjoy the side benefits.

Not trying to be disrespectful here but, I think you would be better off with higher E2 and controlling your BPH with cialis.

I know people who have crashed e2 to levels that can’t be read they are so low with adex.

I’d be interested in evidence to the contrary of my belief.

It is used clinically to bring e2 to nearly 0 in female breast cancer patients.

I guess I could try to run my current protocol without AI again and see how it goes this time around. If my prostate gets worse I can try the mast route or just hop back on ai

Mast is great on its own in my opinion. Definitely improve erections and libido, especially you’ve ever been impacted by nandrolone.

Look up DIM. Many use it successfully.

Have you tried cialis for bph? The generic is super cheap now. I quit using AI because it was crashing the my E 2 and I take 200mg of test a week. Crashing my e2 gave me soft peter. I also blast 300 mg of mast about twice a year.

I feel like 80% of people using an AI are either using too much or shouldn’t be using any at all. Crashed E2 levels are just as bad or maybe even worse than high levels. It really is all about the estrogen to test ratio. High test, slightly elevated estrogen is a beautiful thing. Also, I run masteron with every cycle. Love it