T Nation

Recovery

Hi all.

I’m entirely new to training, having let myself get horribly out of shape over many years. So you guys are light years ahead of me.

My wife and I have started on a personal training regime and diet, however I found myself taking 2 to 3 days for my muscles to recover (or is that completely normal… or am I just that unhealthy :? )

Looking around the site, I’m trying to pick up on the truisms and throw away the fuzzy unsure details.
I’d like to throw around what I think I know, and see if there are comments.

True or false…

  1. Recovery from a workout and the stiffness/soreness is related to protein synthesis.
  2. Protein synthesis has a fairly large window after a workout
  3. Protein synthesis requires amino acids, and essential amino acids particularly.

Thus, if I have a PWD (pre workout drink) before the workout, and then about an hour after the workout, and follow it up with a high protein and carb diet for the next day or so, I should recover faster/better ?

Also, I’ve been reluctant to go the route of expensive supplement drinks, and have been using whey, milk and honey, sometimes with some banana.
How much of a difference is there between that and the stuff off the shelf PWD?
Keep in mind that I’m not a professional - I’m just trying to get into shape as efficiently as possible.

Any advice from the you guys is greatly appreciated. You were a beginner too, once :slight_smile:

I just found and read ‘7 secrets to rapid recovery’, which was quite helpful.

Still, how effective (or not) is simply whey powder, milk, and honey with a banana?
Compared to something like Surge?

Btw, useful site

you mean add in an extra 2 shakes a day before and after you work out?

if so, yes adding extra protein and carbs at the right times will help you heal faster…

2-3 days to heal isnt that unusual thats about how long it takes me to heal not that im in great shape

Wow, second time I have posted this, this morning, but anyway here goes. Read the this info article and the corresponding thread http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459244

After reading that info you should have a better understanding why Surge is the better choice then the recipe you posted.

D

Oy, I really hate to steer people away from Biotest products ( I buy and use a lot of them) but if you need a cheap alternative to surge you can buy some Malodextrin and dextrose and and them to your shake.

My WO shake consits of 54g protein, 1/4 cup Maltodextrin, 1.25 tsp Dextrose and a serving of BCAA (Branched Chain Amino Acids).

Post WO shake consists of 1/4 cup Maltodextrin, 1.25 tsp Dextrose and a serving of BCAA (Branched Chain Amino Acids) and a serving of creatine and half scoop of gatorade.

If you really want to speed your recoverery I suggest that you get Creatine and BCAA, infact these really should be a staple. Also Beta-7 has been working very well to.

Thanks for the responses all. Surge really does get a great review, but it’s quite pricey with the exchange rate in my country.
I’d like to try my own mixture first, and if that doesn’t help my recovery enough, I’ll definitely go with Surge.

My workouts aren’t entirely resistance training, it’s a personal fitness thing that combines anaerobic and aerobic at different times and intensities. So far I’m not questioning it, and just giving it a try.

When I can actually SEE some abs again, then I’d treat things differently.
I’m seriously in bad health.

Regarding those ingredients, where can I get them? Eg. the branched amino acids and maltodextrose? My local health shop?

Thanks again for the responses.

[quote]placeboza wrote:
Thanks for the responses all. Surge really does get a great review, but it’s quite pricey with the exchange rate in my country.
I’d like to try my own mixture first, and if that doesn’t help my recovery enough, I’ll definitely go with Surge.

My workouts aren’t entirely resistance training, it’s a personal fitness thing that combines anaerobic and aerobic at different times and intensities. So far I’m not questioning it, and just giving it a try.

When I can actually SEE some abs again, then I’d treat things differently.
I’m seriously in bad health.

Regarding those ingredients, where can I get them? Eg. the branched amino acids and maltodextrose? My local health shop?

Thanks again for the responses.[/quote]

You can get the Maltodextrin and Dextrose at Bodybuilding.com for cheap.

The BCAA you can buy here as well as other health food stores. Vitamineshoppe.com sells them for cheap too.

I can honestly say that since I started using Surge (probably 4 months or so) my recovery is much quicker. This isn’t to say that there aren’t alternatives, but it definately makes life easier than trying to mix all your own ingredients.

I mix 4 scoops of Surge with 32oz of water and start drinking it at the beginning of the workout. I try to drink half during the workout and half after. The taste alone is worth it, hell, I would consider it a cheat meal if Biotest didn’t keep telling me how good it was for me.

[quote]placeboza wrote:
Hi all.

I’m entirely new to training, having let myself get horribly out of shape over many years. So you guys are light years ahead of me.

My wife and I have started on a personal training regime and diet, however I found myself taking 2 to 3 days for my muscles to recover (or is that completely normal… or am I just that unhealthy :? )

[/quote]

What kind of workout are you doing? If you are doing full-body workouts and you find you can’t recover cut the volume and or intensity. If you’re doing split routines then 2-3 days shouldn’t really be a problem, but you could cut that volume and intensity as well. Besides that just make sure you’re eating enough. Post workout nutrition while important is not as important as what you eat the rest of the day.

Thanks again guys.

I did another workout yesterday, and I’m not too bad today. In fact, I feel too good. Either it’s the USN muscle bar I ate before and after, or that my body was still getting used to the routine.

As for the workout type, I suppose what I’m doing is a kind of holistic full body training. It ends up training strength, speed, balance, flexibility as well as reflexes.

So it tends to mix some anaerobic and aerobic activity a bit.
Right now, I’m not concerned about that, as, being so unhealthy, any mix will work just fine.

Personally, I’m more interested in building muscle right now, as I know it’ll help me get into shape a whole lot faster and effectively than working on just weight loss.

My diet is based more on principles like:

  • No refined foods like sugar or white bread. Unless a few hours after a workout, in which case it’s not too bad.
  • Keep starchy simple carbs to a minimum. Like potato, pasta, etc. Again, unless I need the boost of energy after a workout.
  • Eat something every 2 or 3 hours. Mostly snacks, involving fruit/veg and/or protein/yogurt, etc.
  • I have a decent breakfast following a workout the previous day
  • Usually my biggest meal is supper. I now this necessarily good, but cannot change it.
  • All meals involve protein and veg/fruit. Energy is gained from fructose rather than sucrose, except in particular situations.
  • Avoid saturated or hydrogenated fats. Sat. fats are allowed following a workout though, but I still prefer other fat types.
  • No rubbish like MSG, etc. Pastries are typically out.
  • No alcohol or caffiene. And I don’t smoke.

The idea is to balance my energy out, except following a workout. And keep my body free from harmful trash.

Sorry for the double post.

I just went through the process of buying some HOT-ROX Extreme to try (and was considering Surge)… and then noticed the shipping cost.
Which is about as much as a bottle for me.

As much as I wanted to get the stuff, it’s just insane on pricing because of the shipping.

I’m gonna go with a local sports/bodybuilding supplement provider - www.usn.co.za (no, I’m not advertising them, because I have no idea if they’re any good whatsoever)
I can get it from local stores, so it just makes a whole lot more sense for me to try that first.

Just an update. I got Biogen’s protein shake (I forget the name), and USN’s Phedra-Cut XT.
I’ve been told that Phedra-Cut sucks though, compared to the others.
They said that it’s apt I call myself ‘Placebo’ and buy USN - it’s the same thing :stuck_out_tongue:

I’ll keep an eye out for Biotest’s stuff locally. My store seemed to indicate that they might be stocking it soon.

As a fellow beginner, I don’t take any supplements other than a pre and post workout drink of carbs and protein. I can’t argue with anybody about the effectiveness of any supplements. For me it is more of a philosophic thing. I am not looking for quick results but am trying to establish a solid foundation where I can do this for a long time.

I know that more experienced people have a long list of things that I should be doing. But I believe that for the long run, one step at a time is best. The first step is to get to the gym regularly and workout hard. The second step is to improve the diet. The third step is the pre and post workout shake. I don’t know when or what step 4 will be, but as I am making good progress at step 3, that is where I will stay. The supplement I am looking for is one that gives me patience and consistency.

I find if your diet is sufficient you could get away with a whey protein sup, BCAA and a multi vit.

As for recovery I have ried plenty of diff supps and none have realy helped with my recovery to any great degree. If you train hard enough your body is gonna need a decent amou nt of time to recover from it.

Then you probably were recovering as well as you could already, so a supplement wouldn’t make a huge difference.

In my case, I cut my recovery from 3 days to 1 day.
That’s just by using a protein shake for pre/post workout.

My wife doesn’t suffer the same problem, but then she’s not hitting the resistance training to the same extent.

Hi placeboza,

This is where you can find most of the things needed to achieve your goal. As you can see the gents at T-Nation (Thanks Vroom!) go through a lot of effort to ensure everyone gets a fare shot at reaching their goals.
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=640350

I base most of what I am busy with on what is available on this site.

In case you need a more direct response too your questions this should help. This is what I have found over the past couple of months that has worked for me.

Available Supplements I am using

Biogen Nitro-Gain - 42/19
Biogen Zema-Test ZMA (2 week using this)
Biogen Crea Blast (Post - Workout creatine)
Storm Shock Therapy (Pre-Workout creatine boost, potent stuff!)
USN Dynamic Whey Protein
Phedra-Cut XT (Girlfriend is using this, good results so far, she is following a 5 meal per day diet)

What Is A Proper Pre, During, And Post Workout Nutrition Diet?

How Can You Use Different Forms Of Protein To Your Advantage?
forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=316556&d=1152555014

ZMA - Why you need this

Fat loss diet
The T-Dawg Diet: Version 2.0
http://www.T-Nation.com/...ic.do?id=473067

My current routine
TBT Total Body Training 11-Oct-04
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=508031 (http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=508031)

My list of available routines
( * Most of the links should work, if some don’t, I apologies in advance* )

The following Chad Waterbury routines can be considered depending on your goals:

Build:

ABBH
ABBH II
TTT
TBT
QD
Single’s Club

Fat loss:

NB3
BBB
ABBH
TTT
SFM

  • Check the links below to find related articles and suggested training methods *

Death by Bodyweight
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459685
Great for traveling or those who don’t live near a gym .

Great Guns
Phase I http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=body_107guns
Phase II http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=460346
Phase III http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=460161
Phase IV http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=460334
Workout for the arms, fill out your shirtsleeves!

Limping
Phase I
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459546
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459757
Phase II
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459755
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459758
Phase III
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459332
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=460856
Phase IV
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459782
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=460295

Legs. Big strong legs.

Super Strength
Phase I http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=body_91super
Phase II http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=body_93super
Phase III http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=body_95super
Phase IV http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=body_98super (this ones messed up, try highlighting the text area).
And of course the back/chest. Here’s the V giving exercises for you.

Pendulum Training
http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=293pend2
Rather than achieve every thing in one go, focus on one goal at a time. Primarily from an athletic perspective (speed/power/strength as well as size)

Pendulum Body Building
http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=296pend2
Take the theories of Pendulum training and apply them to a body building routine.

Renegade Training
http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=219rene
Uses a wide variety of exercises to keep the body motivated and improving gains. Comes from a football (gridiron) training plan but works for any athlete.

Renegade Bodybuilding
http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=226rene
Uses the Renegade training principles to “pursue a look reminiscent of the perfect male physique of ancient Greece”.

Strength-Focused Mesocycle by Chad Waterbury
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=485341

GPP ASAP by Chad Waterbury
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=468125

Abs for Athletes and Babehounds by Christian Thibaudeau
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459670

Abs for Athletes and Babehounds 2K3 by Christian Thibadeau
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459658

Strongman Training for Athletes by Joe DeFranco
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=496298

High Octane Cardio by Mike Mahler
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=460021

Running Man by Christian Thibadeau
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459414

Combat Conditioning by Mike Mahler/Matt Furey
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459922
The 8 Keys of Dave Tate
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459483
Real Abs training
http://T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459681

Big Muscles, Busy Schedules by Ian King.
http://T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459534
how to build muscles among busy schedules by only training twice a week.

ABBH I Anti-Bodybuilding Hypertrophy I 16-Jan-03
http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=244anti2 (http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=244anti2)

ABBH II Anti-Bodybuilding Hypertrophy II 1-Apr-04
http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle…icle=307hyper2 (http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=307hyper2)

SFM Strength Focused Mesocycle 10-Aug-04
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=485341 (http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=485341)

SOB SOB Training 10-Feb-05
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=561180 (http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=561180)

TTT Triple Total Training 14-Jul-04
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=476508 (http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=476508)

HH Hybrid Hypertrophy 8-Mar-05
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=580380 (http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=580380)

WM Waterbury Method 20-Dec-04
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=534922 (http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=534922)

TBT Total Body Training 11-Oct-04
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=508031 (http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=508031)

PFM Primed For Muscle 19-May-05
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=635888 (http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=635888)

QD Quattro Dynamo 1-Jan-04
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459216 (http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459216)

SC Singles Club 16-Apr-04
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459290 (http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459290)

BBB Big Boy Basics 24-Oct-03
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459533 (http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459533)

NB3 Next Big Three 13-Dec-01*
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459914 (http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459914)

OSC Outlaw Strength & Conditioning 20-Feb-03
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459262 (http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459262)

ART The Art Of Waterbury 18-Jul-05
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=693794 (http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=693794)

LFGB Lift Fast Get Big 6-Dec-04
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=529331 (http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=529331)

GPP General Physical Preparedeness 21-Jun-04
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=468125 (http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=468125)
Chad Waterbury’s “The Summer Workout Project”
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1140463

Hopefully this will help or answer some of your questions!

Kind regards

  • MAVRIC *

[quote]Mavric wrote:
Hopefully this will help or answer some of your questions!

Kind regards

  • MAVRIC *
    [/quote]

Answer some of his questions? I can almost see him hiding under a table with his head covered.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Answer some of his questions? I can almost see him hiding under a table with his head covered.[/quote]
O.o … yeah, something like that!

Thanks for the info though. I’ll make my way through it as I can. I’ll get back to you next year :smiley:

I’ll be concentrating more on the athletic/combat shape-up side of it.
Right now I’m building muscle because I need more, but I don’t intend to become like Arnie either.
And I don’t have a luxury of a gym, but I do have the luxury of a ‘virtual personal trainer’

I’m making good progress at the moment. I’m sure the links will help do even better :slight_smile:
Thanks Mav.

[quote]placeboza wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Answer some of his questions? I can almost see him hiding under a table with his head covered.
O.o … yeah, something like that!

Thanks for the info though. I’ll make my way through it as I can. I’ll get back to you next year :smiley:

I’ll be concentrating more on the athletic/combat shape-up side of it.
Right now I’m building muscle because I need more, but I don’t intend to become like Arnie either.
And I don’t have a luxury of a gym, but I do have the luxury of a ‘virtual personal trainer’

I’m making good progress at the moment. I’m sure the links will help do even better :slight_smile:
Thanks Mav.[/quote]

LOL! I had a bit of a moment myself when I realized how much good info is available on this site.

“I’m entirely new to training, having let myself get horribly out of shape over many years. So you guys are light years ahead of me.”

I won’t say I am entirely new to training but I always learn something browsing on this site. This should more or less put you on track, not all information will be beneficial to you now, however in future you may need info on something else depending on how your goals change.

Good luck.

[quote]placeboza wrote:
My wife and I have started on a personal training regime and diet, however I found myself taking 2 to 3 days for my muscles to recover (or is that completely normal… or am I just that unhealthy :? )
[/quote]

don’t worry
it is normal
with time think changes… but when you start a “new” think you need to become accustomed to it…

:wink: