T Nation

Recovery Advice Needed


#1

This is a long time coming but i’ve been in panic mode for so long I just need some advice without being judged really as i know im an idiot.

At age 22 in Around April/May 2015 i ran a cycle of test-e 250mg twice a week all the way up to September (few weeks in between i missed out because i couldn’t get hold of test). I was young and stupid and just picked a beginner cycle off The web and was extremely negligent towards possible side affects. I understand how stupid I’ve been and accept i should never have touched the things whilst so irresponsible. Now i just want to be back to normal. Im trying to give a full account because it has got me so down i just want to be myself again, and would appreciate any input you may take the time to give.

I threw anavar in towards the end of the cylce and my balls shrivelled up to nothing at one point. throughout the cycle and to this day i have had ed issues.

At the end of the cycle in september 2015 i did a few weeks of nolvadex following dosgaes recommended online somewhere for about 4 weeks and threw in some arimidex not really knowing what i was doing. My libido was’t too bad But i always struggled to maintain an erection

I had bloods done in june 2016 after months of avoiding the GP but i finally built up the confidence to go and he said everything was fine and in range so i put it down to being a psychological thing

I was slowly starting to get better libido and EQ wise looking back but was was down about it still and did some stupid 2/3 week course of winstrol at 50mg a day before i went on holiday in September 2016 as a bit of a confidence booster. … with some friends who are also uneducated on steroid use.

Now in january 2017 i have had ED problems consistently coming up to 1 and a half years now … and the past two months i feel my general mood and libido are shot. I paid my GP to see the blood results from june 2016 and the only useful value i could really see was that my total serum testosterone was 11.7nmol/L. This was 7 months after finishing the cycle so within range but when i looked … well out for a 23 year old ?! My GP never picked up on this … then i foolishly threw more steroids in myself ?!

I honestly just don’t know what to do. My balls to me do look smaller than they once were but not severely atrophied and i just dont get the sexual urges i used to before steroids. I just dont feel like i used to before i touched them.

I pais to privately see an endo to see if he can help me and what he recommended and he just told me id come back naturally it may just take years. the GP told me i should go in for counselling as it could be mental. Im had further blood tests today to see where i am at as of now and am awaiting results.

I have read online about clomid and hcg to use as a sort of restart etc and was wondering whether another PCT may be worth a go ? This late ? but obviously im looking for some sort of guidance as i have made enough supid decisions already
I have Clomid on hand right now but nothing else. Is it worth giving it a go at 50mg ED ?

I know this is long and you are just thinking what a mess this guy is but i just feel like im 23 and ive ruined myself

Please would you be able to help you do not know how much i would value your input


#2

I received the following bloods back today from a test yesterday:

testosterone 29.7nmol/L (7.6-31.4) Free Test 0.677nmol/L (0.30 - 1) Oestradiol 226.7pmol/L (0-191.99) SHBG 31.24nmol/L (16-55)

Still awaiting FSH and LH

As you can see my oestradiol level is through the roof and my test is high.

I had been supplementing with zma, vit D, tribulus and an over the counter product called post cycle support by anabolic innovations to try boost my natural test levels.

I didn’t even think stupidly being in such a panic about the situation recently so this will attribute to the results I assume. However i’m hoping its positive that my body has managed to produce this much test without a serm just OTC products ?

Does this effectively render my blood results useless and pointless in consulting with you until i drop everything and let them settle ?

Or should i be doing something to lower my oestrogen and then tapering off and seeing what my body does naturally ?


#3

@KSman i dont know if its frowned upon to tag you like this but sifting through the forums for weeks in desperation it’s clear to see your knowledge is up there with the best.

Please would you be able to advise me on my current situation.

Thank you so much


#4

I got a little confused at the end of your first post. when exactly is the last time you used any steroids?

I’m assuming you’ve been off since September or October… is that correct?

Here’s my concern… IF you’ve been off steroids that long, and your test and estrogen are so high, it makes me think that perhaps your post cycle support might actually be tainted with low dose steroids. Which would be a very bad thing. Are you still using that product? And if not, when did you stop? Please list everything you’ve used in the last 30 days.

I’d like to continue, but I’d prefer to have this answered first for clarification.


#5

@flipcollar

I was slowly recovering until Aug/September when i foolishly did the Winstrol.

Came off these mid september and have only touched in the past 30 days and since beginning if November

Vit D
ZMA
Tribulus
DAA
Maca root

(All of myprotein.com)

And then a product called Post Cycle Support by a company called Anabolic Innovations. I ordered this from predator nutrition. Ingredients in this include trans-resveratrol etc and the bottle says increased endogenous test production. I would hope this doesnt contain anything suspicious.

Thanks for your response


#7

Stop taking the post cycle support and the DAA. the goal of bloodwork, at this point, is to see what your body is producing naturally. Feel free to keep taking the vitamin D and ZMA, but drop everything else, and get bloodwork again in 2-3 weeks and see what things look like.


#8

@flipcollar
Okay bro thankyou for your response I’ll drop everything.

My only query is if i suddenly drop everything now rather than taper, even though my levels look okay is my HPTA more likely to just fall on it’s arse ?

Im not disagreeing with what you said ill do exactly that, more just for my info really.

Also is there anything i can do for libido in the meantime ?


#9

@flipcollar

Results for FSH and LH came through today.

FSH 2.03 IU/L (1.5 - 12.4)
LH 7.9 IU/L (1.7 - 9.6)


#10

First off, your LH and FSH are good enough for now, they should stabilize more over time.

There’s no reason to taper. The products you’re using, assuming they are what they say they are, are only aiding natural production, rather than introducing exogenous test, so dropping them shouldn’t result in anything but a return to normal production for you.

As for Libido… I think there’s a good chance it’s a mental thing. you’ve gotta stop worrying about this stuff, it’s clearly a major concern for you. If you start believing you’re just fine, chances are you will be. The high E could be contributing to the problem, but I don’t want you to do anything to attack that problem until we’ve seen the results of taking out the supplements you’re taking.


#11

As i have learned your balls would not return back for a long period of time lets say 9 months. Before you start your steroid cycle i think you should already be accepting that after your steroid cycle, on and off you will already be ready for another cycle. Because being on juice and the injecting on a daily is a lifestyle. Its like working out, you dont workout for only 3 months and stop you should make it a lifestyle. I hope this helps and i hope anyone who consider using gear would be responsible and accept the risk of improper use. And be on juice for years to come and as a part of a lifestyle


#12

@KSman please could i get your view on this … is that high E2 gonna smack right down my natural test production ?


#13

As SHBG is so high, there is a lot of T+SHBG floating around and it is inflating TT and SHBG+T is not bio-available. So your T status is more related to your FT than TT and is thus middle of the road.

With lower FT and high E2, it is expected that libido will suffer, mood will suck and energy levels will be reduced.

High E2 is reducing LH, FSH and T. Your LH is oddly high relative to FSH. FSH is often a better indicator of LH status than LH itself as LH is released in pulses and has a short half-life, it moves around a lot and any given lab may not be representative. That been said, high LH VS FSH is seen now and then.

Based on FT, you could try .5 - .6 mg anastrozole per week in divided doses. EOD would be good, dissolve 1mg/ml in vodka and dispense by volume or by the drop. Some are over-responders who need 1/4th that dose, no way to know in advance. If you crash E2, you will know it.

Your situation looks like estrogen rebound. PCT was flawed or non-existent. Some guys have brittle HPTAs.

If you can do labs, your target is E2=22pg/ml - 80 pmol/L

Higher T and lower E2 will reduce SHBG over time.

Please read the stickies found here: About the T Replacement Category

  • advice for new guys
  • things that damage your hormones
  • protocol for injections
  • finding a TRT doc
  • HPTA restart

Evaluate your overall thyroid function by checking oral body temperatures as per the thyroid basics sticky. Thyroid hormone fT3 is what gets the job done and it regulates mitochondrial activity, the source of ATP which is the universal currency of cellular energy. This is part of the body’s temperature control loop. This can get messed up if you are iodine deficient. In many countries, you need to be using iodized salt. Other countries add iodine to dairy or bread.


#14

Thank you so much for your response KSman what’s just a reply to you is so much more to me.

I will try what you have recommended. Although considering my TT 9 months after the cycle with a terrible PCT was 11.7nmol im assuming this over the counter PCT product boosted my levels. I have dropped this and will add the arimidex.

Do you think I’ll recover to somewhere around where i was pre steroids ? I will never touch the things again.