T Nation

Recomp Cycle


#1

I've been out of the game for health reasons. Eventually I slowly got back into the groove. Training and nutrition up to par, slowly but surely regaining my strength and loosing fat I've accumulated for the past 2 years. And I got onto TRT.

Planning body recomp from 18% BF down to whatever I can squeeze out of this recomp cyle.

The Plan:
Training, Carbs:
Day1: Bench pattern, Carbs: 50g
Day2: Squat pattern, Carbs: 150g
Day3: Lats pattern, Carbs: 50g
Day4: Overhead pattern, Carbs 50g
Day5: Deadlift pattern, Carbs 100g
Day6: Arms, Carbs 50g
Day7: Off, Carbs 50g

Gear:
W1-10 Var 50mg ED split in 2 doses every 12 hours
W1-10 Test-Sust E3D, 250mg per pin, that's 583mg/W
W1-8 Tren-E E3D, 100mg per pin, that's 233mg/W

W?-? thinking of masteron same dose as Tren per week. I know that with my BF mast won't produce the desired effect. So I am open for suggestions what would be a good addition to the stack.

W1-infinity HGH 5iu ED split morning and just before training
W1-12 Anastrazole 0.25mg EOD
W1-12 HGC 250iu E3D (my TRT dose)
Have Nolva on hand for bitchtits.

W5-8 T3 (should also help with prolactin and thyroid supression from the effects of Tren)
T3
1 12.5mcg 2 12.5mcg
3 25mcg 1 doze am
4 25mcg 1 doze am
5 25mcg 1 doze am
6 25mcg 1 doze am
7 50mcg Split 2 dozes 8h apart
8 50mcg Split 2 dozes 8h apart
9 50mcg Split 2 dozes 8h apart
10 50mcg Split 2 dozes 8h apart
11 75mcg Split 3 dozes 6h apart
12 75mcg Split 3 dozes 6h apart
13 75mcg Split 3 dozes 6h apart
14 75mcg Split 3 dozes 6h apart
15 75mcg Split 3 dozes 6h apart
16 75mcg Split 3 dozes 6h apart
17 50mcg Split 2 dozes 8h apart
18 50mcg Split 2 dozes 8h apart
19 50mcg Split 2 dozes 8h apart
20 50mcg Split 2 dozes 8h apart
21 50mcg Split 2 dozes 8h apart
22 25mcg Split 1 dozes 10h apart
23 25mcg Split 1 dozes 10h apart
24 25mcg Split 1 dozes 10h apart
25 25mcg Split 1 dozes 10h apart
26 12.5mcg 1 doze am
27 12.5mcg 1 doze am
28 12.5mcg 1 doze am
29 12.5mcg 1 doze am

PCT:
Since I am on TRT I'll just wait 2 weeks before going back on 250/W of Sust (TRT).

I hate pinning ED so I've opted for Tren E. I've used Tren Hex before and I handled it well in regards to sides therefore Enth experience should have similar effect on me.

Fire away.


#2

The planned cycle is months away, so I am still researching. There is a trend in here to run Tren high and keep Test at TRT level. Does this make a difference besides the fact that most will have less sides from tren?


#3

[quote]CrazyDude wrote:
The planned cycle is months away, so I am still researching. There is a trend in here to run Tren high and keep Test at TRT level. Does this make a difference besides the fact that most will have less sides from tren?

[/quote]

It scares me that you misspelled dose over 30 times in this post.

Tren High and Low test seems to lower sides a lot in most people me included. It also helps keep water retention to a minimum which for recomp purposes is a very good thing.


#4

[quote]Reed wrote:
It scares me that you misspelled dose over 30 times in this post.

Tren High and Low test seems to lower sides a lot in most people me included. It also helps keep water retention to a minimum which for recomp purposes is a very good thing.[/quote]

LOL. Having all the data in spreadsheets sometimes multiply errors in spelling :slight_smile:

Yes, It looks like this is the current trend. And by researching more it looks like low test/high tren works better for body-recomp/cutting.
So how about this stack:

Var 50/D
Test E 250/W
Tren E 350/W
Mast P 175/W

pinning everything EOD

Another thing. I might be switching on my TRT from Sust250 to Nebido (Test Undecanoate). I know test is test, none the less will it hurt my goal if I use longer estered test?


#5

Couple of quick thoughts.

Watch out for Nebido. They pushed it on my doc pretty hard a couple of years ago and the success was so great he won’t prescribe it anymore… Even though it has a long half-life, if you look at any chart you will see towards the last 2-4 weeks between the recommended every 12 week shot you are getting very little test. If you can, try an inject every 4 weeks to keep your values stable. Only if cost is an issue would I ever consider Nebido again, and compared to primoteston cost is not really an issue at the moment.

350mg Tren is not really “high” but a good place to start. Tren, particularly for first time use, is best with the very least amount to get results. If you are using quality tren then 350 should set you right. You are planning enanthate so I wouldn’t frontload but just let it come on slowly to see how the sides are.

The one really terrible effect from Tren is lactation. I have always had prami and caber on hand, but have never experienced it. I do run an AI consistently and I have the feeling there is a high prolactin - high estrogen combination that is the real cause. So run an AI consistently, you have it in your plans, just don’t miss a dose. Just in case, you might consider prami or caber or both to have on hand.

I have always run masteron with tren because it seems to be the standard. I couldn’t tell you one way or another if it has really made a difference. But I have never needed to end a tren run because of sides either, so there you go.


#6

GoCal, thanks for commenting on Nebido. I’ve ran simulations on the steroid calculator and figured that I’d just split the vial so I am pinning once a week or if that gives me ups and downs however unlikely on such long estered stuff I dont really mind pinning it twice a week.

I don’t mind pinning EOD (ED however I hate with all my heart), that’s why I’m not doing Tren A. This is not my first encounter with Tren. My last cycle I ran Test P and Tren Hex at 700/350 per week respectively. The only sides from Tren I’ve experienced were loss of cardio capacity and difficulty sleeping. I do have caber on hand but had never used it before. I plan to to use AI for E2 and inject B6 for prolactin. Starting week 3 when Enthanate really kicks in I’ll start doing regular blood tests to make sure E2 and prolactin are in order.

I’ve no idea what kind of quality of Tren I have. Its suppose to be from a reputable source, but never know. I’ll start as you reaffirm at 350/W and if everything goes well on week 3 perhaps bump it up to 450 or 500.

On another note, getting diffuculty getting enough for the whole cycle VAR, so I am thinking of starting off with Winny then switching to VAR at cycle’s midpoint. Others I’ve seen stack dbol with Tren and have gotten pretty good results even for cutting. Perhaps for body recomp it just might work too.

What do you think bros?


#7

drop the t3… it’s catabolic as shit. only to be used when you are dieting for a comp and are running behind.

low test/high tren is shit.

var is expensive garbage… get superdrol from a raws source… will have you gaining strength during calorie restriction.

if you are serious about losing fat, add clen and use DNP lol. that will get you to where you want to be for sure.


#8

Good to see Walkway around again.

What’s your opinion on the best first tren cycle? or the ratio to run it with test in general?


#9

[quote]joyfull wrote:
Good to see Walkway around again.

What’s your opinion on the best first tren cycle? or the ratio to run it with test in general? [/quote]

well, high test/high tren will work best IMO. I wouldn’t say that there is any specific ratio per se.

I always run test higher than tren, because I gained the best that way.

ive run high tren/low test, high tren/no test, high tren/high test, and low tren/high test.

high tren/high test worked best, high test/low tren worked second best. be sure to control your estrogen


#10

What do you consider to be ‘high tren’? I’m assuming high test is something like a gram or more?


#11

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
drop the t3… it’s catabolic as shit. only to be used when you are dieting for a comp and are running behind.

low test/high tren is shit.

var is expensive garbage… get superdrol from a raws source… will have you gaining strength during calorie restriction.

if you are serious about losing fat, add clen and use DNP lol. that will get you to where you want to be for sure.
[/quote]

Thanks for heads up on T3 Mr. Walkway! Since I am not cutting but rather moving shit around my body. I’d drop T3. I do have clen and have used it before. Nasty shit but it worked. I believe common protocol is 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off while taking ketotifen (sp?). That’ll give me 2 solid runs during my cycle.

Never used DNP and from what I read I will stay away from it.

Superdrol is a no go for me. Can’t get it where I am. Besides since I plan to run with Masteron (while superdrol is kinda similar), would it make more sense to use Winny or something else?

If I do however end up doing Winny, what would be the equivalent of injectable dose for lets say 50mg tab ED? AFAIK depot winny doesn’t hurt the liver as much as the tabs.


#12

On the second thought Mast and Winny would probably dry up my joints too much.
Any alternatives out there?


#13

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
drop the t3… it’s catabolic as shit. only to be used when you are dieting for a comp and are running behind.

low test/high tren is shit.

var is expensive garbage… get superdrol from a raws source… will have you gaining strength during calorie restriction.

if you are serious about losing fat, add clen and use DNP lol. that will get you to where you want to be for sure.
[/quote]

T3 isn’t that bad… the dose is the issue as far as muscle loss. the androgens will counter any muscle loss, as well.

personally, i was very underwhelmed by clen, and found T3 to be way more effective for fat loss (and also didn’t need to worry cramping, either).

since Tren can decrease thyroid production, i think T3 is a good addition here, as long as one keeps an eye on the dosage.


#14

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

since Tren can decrease thyroid production, i think T3 is a good addition here, as long as one keeps an eye on the dosage.[/quote]

That was my thinking with T3 as well, to kill 2 birds with one stone - deal with thyroid and shed some lard.

As far as catabolism of T3 seems I need to do more research before deciding one way or another.


#15

[quote]CrazyDude wrote:

Thanks for heads up on T3 Mr. Walkway! Since I am not cutting but rather moving shit around my body. I’d drop T3. I do have clen and have used it before. Nasty shit but it worked. I believe common protocol is 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off while taking ketotifen (sp?). That’ll give me 2 solid runs during my cycle.

Never used DNP and from what I read I will stay away from it.

Superdrol is a no go for me. Can’t get it where I am. Besides since I plan to run with Masteron (while superdrol is kinda similar), would it make more sense to use Winny or something else?

If I do however end up doing Winny, what would be the equivalent of injectable dose for lets say 50mg tab ED? AFAIK depot winny doesn’t hurt the liver as much as the tabs.
[/quote]

I would strongly recommend against T3 at any dose… tren won’t lower your thyroid activity by any noticeable amount.

superdrol and masteron are nothing alike. superdrol is one of the most powerful drugs for size and strength gain. it is amazing for maintaining size and strength during caloric restriction.

DNP is actually very safe… the people who are against using it are the ones who have never used it… they just mindlessly parrot what they have heard (“it’s deadly” “it’s a poison” “it’s an explosive”, etc.) it’s all mindless drivel. I mean, the drug used to be over-the-counter… didn’t even need a script for it. only got canned because a few people (out of many thousands) developed cataracts…which isn’t a condition that’s hard to treat anymore.

nothing, I repeat, NOTHING comes close to DNP in terms of fat loss. once you use it, I guarantee you won’t use anything else.

but I digress, it’s your body.


#16

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
What do you consider to be ‘high tren’? I’m assuming high test is something like a gram or more?[/quote]

a gram of tren E or 100mg/day of tren ace


#17

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]CrazyDude wrote:

Thanks for heads up on T3 Mr. Walkway! Since I am not cutting but rather moving shit around my body. I’d drop T3. I do have clen and have used it before. Nasty shit but it worked. I believe common protocol is 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off while taking ketotifen (sp?). That’ll give me 2 solid runs during my cycle.

Never used DNP and from what I read I will stay away from it.

Superdrol is a no go for me. Can’t get it where I am. Besides since I plan to run with Masteron (while superdrol is kinda similar), would it make more sense to use Winny or something else?

If I do however end up doing Winny, what would be the equivalent of injectable dose for lets say 50mg tab ED? AFAIK depot winny doesn’t hurt the liver as much as the tabs.
[/quote]

I would strongly recommend against T3 at any dose… tren won’t lower your thyroid activity by any noticeable amount.

superdrol and masteron are nothing alike. superdrol is one of the most powerful drugs for size and strength gain. it is amazing for maintaining size and strength during caloric restriction.

DNP is actually very safe… the people who are against using it are the ones who have never used it… they just mindlessly parrot what they have heard (“it’s deadly” “it’s a poison” “it’s an explosive”, etc.) it’s all mindless drivel. I mean, the drug used to be over-the-counter… didn’t even need a script for it. only got canned because a few people (out of many thousands) developed cataracts…which isn’t a condition that’s hard to treat anymore.

nothing, I repeat, NOTHING comes close to DNP in terms of fat loss. once you use it, I guarantee you won’t use anything else.

but I digress, it’s your body. [/quote]

DNP is one of the more toxic things bodybuilders take, and Superdrol is one of the more toxic androgens… and you’re saying to take them together? are you serious??


#18

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

DNP is one of the more toxic things bodybuilders take, and Superdrol is one of the more toxic androgens… and you’re saying to take them together? are you serious??[/quote]

I have yet to see any literature that suggests that DNP is actually toxic at a reasonable dose… Tylenol is responsible for innumerable cases of liver failure but people still eat it like pez.

superdrol’s toxicity is overstated… and can easily be mitigated through liver support supplements. might want to invest in blood pressure support supplements as well - if needed.

so yes, to answer your question, I am serious.


#19

your Google must not work.

DNP:

Superdrol:

http://www.cghjournal.org/article/S1542-3565(07)01106-8/abstract

http://www.cghjournal.org/article/S1542-3565(07)00228-5/abstract


#20

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
your Google must not work.

DNP:

Superdrol:

http://www.cghjournal.org/article/S1542-3565(07)01106-8/abstract

http://www.cghjournal.org/article/S1542-3565(07)00228-5/abstract

[/quote]

Did you read those DNP links? The first one says risks include death, then fancy terms for increased body temperature, heart rate, breathing and sweating. Death is only a risk if you take too much, a problem for most drugs and even non-drugs like water, and you would have to be a moron to overdose on DNP. The rest are common sense effects of increasing your metabolism. The second study even says “No obvious poisoning sequelae were found in the three-month follow-up.” The “scary” risks are all short term due to overdosing, with the possible exception of cataracts.

The third link: “It was soon taken off the market due to adverse effects including cataracts, liver failure, agranulocytosis, and death.” Cataracts are very rare and simple to fix (my mom at 61 has 20/15 vision after getting new lenses). Liver failure and agranulocytosis are both due to the rapid oxidation of fat and the difficulty of ridding the body of the free radicals because they accumulate so fast (because you’re losing fat so fast). There are supplements to take that mitigate this and blood work should be monitored to make sure liver enzymes and white blood cells are normal. Death is not a risk if following prescribed dosages…

So yes if you take too much DNP there are acute risks including death. For those of us who aren’t fucking idiots the long term effects are overstated and comparable if not safer than other drugs commonly used. There are studies that show it combats cancer and has other positive effects btw…

I’m really tired of the forum bro advice about DNP OMG DANGEROUS as if it’s any riskier than other drugs when used responsibly. But yes if abused the consequences aren’t just poor health down the road but possibly immediate death. To me that means don’t abuse it like a dumbass, not to avoid it altogether, especially since it is the best fat burner by far.

I did DNP continuously for 6 weeks and lost over 30 lbs of FAT. It is a miracle drug. My blood work and health markers are all normal. No negative long term effects. I recommend it to anyone who takes the proper precautions and gradually increases the dosage to tolerance

No experience with superdrol so I won’t comment.