T Nation

Recommendations from Anabolics


#1

I have been reading the Anabolics book and trawling the T Nation forums to research my first cycle and have a question I hope those experienced with AAS can answer.

Anabolics recommends an 8 week Stanozol-only first-timer cycle for modest lean mass gains. This seems to suit my needs as I play competitive sport and am looking for improvements in athletic performance and few pounds less fat/few pounds more muscle rather than, say, an extra 20lbs of raw mass.

However, the general feeling I get fom the forums is oral cycles are pointless.

Can anyone shed some light on this?

Is it the liver-related sides? The weaker results vs test? Losing first-run potential?

For reference, I'm 28, 6'0, 207 lbs, 6 years consistent training, solid paleo-type diet.

Thanks


#2

INB4 Oral cycles are pointless.

But seriously, a winstrol only cycle will dry out your joints (making your elbows and knees feel like shit) and shut you down for minimal gains (if any).

If you shutdown your HPTA then you will require PCT of a SERM (Clomifene or Nolvadex being most popular), most people fail to consider this (and when considering compounds other than winstrol, an AI, normally Arimidex or Aromasin), which considerably reduces the cost-benefit of a "single compound oral cycle".

Anecdotally, everyone I know that has messed themselves up from AAS use of any kind, has been from oral only usage (ie: gyno, depression, horrible shut down).

Honestly, if you don't inject, you may as well stay away from steroids entirely. There's really no point.

Just my $0.02.
-PTD


#3

I wouldn't do an 8 week oral winstrol cycle and don't recall ever seeing oral winstrol only cycles promulgated here. However, if I did do a cycle like that, I wouldn't worry about my liver.

I've never done an oral only cycle, in fact I have very little experience with oral steroids so can't comment from an empirical perspective on their effectiveness when used alone; but it is generally accepted that cycles incorporating injectables are preferred. I'm not saying you can't gain from using orals only, just that 99% of people who do an oral only cycle do it because they don't want to inject and have little understanding of what they are doing.

If you only want a few pounds less fat and more mass then an adjustment in diet and perhaps training will be more beneficial than eight week winstrol cycles.

Good luck...


#4

I cant comment on the efficacy of oral only cycles, However a close buddy of mine tried an 8 wk injectable winny only cutting cycle preparing for a local "fitness" show. He got ripped, but he also lost a lot of strength (im not sure if he was just scared to do heavy stuff because of shitty joints or he got really weak) and his libido went to the crapper. I guess winny only cycles would help changing body composition, but it does come w a few sides. I could imagine that an 8 wk oral winny cycle wouldnt be too kind on the liver. In any case, it's you body and your choice. We all are taking risks playing with these compounds. I would however suggest always erring on the side of safety. As the old addage goes, "it's better to be safe than sorry".


#5

I'm guessing his libido got tanked from low E2 caused by the lack of estrogen replacement from using winny only? it's strange I've done a few ten week primo and winstrol only cycles and my libido was firing from all four cylinders, I don't really understand it...


#6

Thanks for the replies.

Quick follow-up question: For those with experience of orals, is there a way of preventing/reducing the painful joints?

NB: I realise injectables are superior, just covering all angles.

Thanks


#7

Don't ask me how, but I can attest that it works: Anadrol and oral winstrol at a 2:1 ratio works VERY well, with no side effects like sore joints or a bloat, just side effects like a crazy fucking pump and instant strength gains :wink:

Somehow the two mitigate each others negative side effects.


#8

Bill Roberts wrote at length about combining orals, I can't remember the particular thread, but he said in lieu of injectables, Anadrol:Winstrol:Anavar at a 2:1:1 ratio (IIRC, or similar) was extremely effective. As none of these compounds aromatize, you wouldn't need an AI like Arimidex, somewhat increasing the cost effectiveness. Obviously T400+1 Oral would be much more cost effective, but it seems like you'd much rather go the oral route than injectable.

The only downside to the above stack I can think of would be absolutely retarded pumps. As in brushing your teeth or tying your shoes would be painful. Like one set of stairs would feel like a calf workout, lol.

Also, as Buddaboy said above, winstrol seems to somehow mitigate the anadrol bloat.

Cheers,
-PTD


#9

Just do Epistane or H-Drol for 6-8 weeks...40 mg Epistane or 100 mg Hdrol everyday, from the get-go will probably get you what you're looking for.

You could do 20/10/10 Nolva for PCT if you really want to, but you'd be OK without it IMO.


#10

What, exactly, is your opinion based on?

What's it like to be as dull as you are? Is ignorance actually bliss?


#11

Oral only cycles are not pointless, per se.

Winstrol for 8 weeks. Not a good idea.


#12

[/quote]

Don't ask me how, but I can attest that it works: Anadrol and oral winstrol at a 2:1 ratio works VERY well, with no side effects like sore joints or a bloat, just side effects like a crazy fucking pump and instant strength gains :wink:

Somehow the two mitigate each others negative side effects.[/quote]

Bonez, what do you think of the above recommendations?
Thanks


#13

Don't ask me how, but I can attest that it works: Anadrol and oral winstrol at a 2:1 ratio works VERY well, with no side effects like sore joints or a bloat, just side effects like a crazy fucking pump and instant strength gains :wink:

Somehow the two mitigate each others negative side effects.[/quote]

Bonez, what do you think of the above recommendations?
Thanks[/quote]

anadrol winstrol has a good track record. Never used them together myself though


#14

IDK, it was the advice of a little guy named HANY RAMBOD!!!

...maybe you've heard of him?


#15

Oh so when you said someone would be ok without PCT based on YOUR opinion, you actually meant that it was based on Hany Rambod's opinion and you were simply trying to pass it off as your own.

Gotcha. Thanks for clearing that up.


#16

Lol I dont think Hany Rambod even has an opinion regarding prohormones, beyond not wasting your time with them.

If you take issue with my suggestion of not doing PCT, that's fine. Maybe it's not T-Nation canon, but from what I've seen with myself and others, it is overkill for the mild prohormones.

PCT chemicals have side effects of their own, and in this case, the risk outweighs the benefit--IN MY OPINION!


#17

Would you mind posting the blood work that your opnion is based on?

Otherwise, stop trolling this forum, there are plenty others to waste your time in.