T Nation

Recent Lab Work & HCG Monotherpay


#1

Need some help with my HCG regimen, any suggestions is much appreciated!

Original lab work my total test was 254, then started Pregnyl every other day, 3 X a week 500 IU each shot. This raised my total test to 452 and E2 to 32 in 3 weeks.

Then I started Empower pharmacy HCG (cheaper than Pregnyl) and I increased my dosage to 600 IU each shot 3 times a week for 3 weeks and my new lab work came back at 337 total test and 32 e2.

Besides switching from Pregnyl to compounded HCG here is what I did differently:
First labs I was injecting straight into my thigh which is very lean and little fat, during the second labs I was pinching the fat and injecting into that and I injected into my belly fat a handful of times.
First labs were done on a Thursday so I had HCG in my system from Monday's & Wednesdays shot's, versus the last labs I had the blood drawn on a Tuesday so I had no HCG in me during the weekend but just Monday's shot.

So what are some thoughts on what caused the drop rather than the increase in total T since I raised the dosage?


#2

Do you have the total lab work for review? DId you read the stickies, too many unanswered questions to start with an educated guess here. \


#3

Was the hCG shipped to you or you picked it up.
Was it dry and you reconstituted with BA water?
Yes, there might be product issues.

Perhaps lab timing is the issue. That is why I suggest that lab timing not be changed.

The half-life is good for EOD injections

May 2005, there was a paper published that studies testicular response to EOD SC injections of hCG. That established that 250iu SC EOD was an appropriate LH replacement dose in young normal males that were injected with 200mg T cyp per week to shutdown their HPTA's.

You appear to have some degree of primary hypogonadism. There might be some clues in your thread from early in the year.

There is some concern that high hCG doses might desensitize your LH receptors and that would be a step backwards. You can't simply increase hCG without hitting a limitation.


#4

First, I’d like to apologize for not responding as I never received email notifications that you two have helped out with some responses.

Secondly, I have a lot more info and again am in the need of help. Please bear with this as it may be a bit long.

Since my OP, I have went back to Pregnyl at various doses with big raises in my Total T. Here is a complete breakdown of my labs, all were done same time in the morning and either exactly 3 or 4 weeks from the time I made a change to my dosing:

7/18/14 Started Pregnyl 500IU EOD/3 times a week for 3 weeks = raised T to 452 & e2 32

8/25/14 Changed to Empower HCG OMITTING THIS ENTRY & LABELING IT AS A FLUKE

10/08/14 - Changed back to Pregnyl,raised dose to 700iu EOD for 3 weeks = raised T to 617 but e2 went up to 94!

11/10/14 Monday Started .2 Anastrozole twice weekly, continued 700iu EOD = Total T: 835 e2: 72

12/16/14 lowered dose to 600 IU EOD3 X a week, increased frequencey to .2mg Anastrozole three times weekly (day after shot)= Total T:792 e2:60 THis time tested: Hemocrit: 50.8% Hemoglobin: 17.4
Have been very anxious, not sleeping well and hot flashes during this time

1/13/15: Very Concerned about myHemocrit,dropped down to 500IU EOD & Anastrozole 3 times a week.

1/20/15: Anxiety so bad, doctor and I blamed the Anastrozole and stopped taking it.

1/13/15 - 2/12/15: Labs came back, Total T:720, e2: 73, Hemoglobin: 17.4, Hemocrit: 50.6%

I’ve decided that I think I need a break and I need to get my body closer to baseline before making any more big changes. I’d like to know, if there is a way for me to lower my HCG to just get by with decent Total T levels while keeping my e2 and hemocrit in check.

I’d also like to say that I’d rather do this with HCG alone and not add in an AI. I know I can donate blood for the hemocrit but I really don’t have that option now.

Any suggestions?


#5

You should know from the stickies that high dose hCG creates high E2 levels that are not controllable with anastrozole.

E2 management is very important.

You may need T+AI+hCG as higher hCG doses did not take T to a decent level.


#6

I thought the HCG did bring up my T levels to a decent amount, I’m currently at 720 from 250. I do feel good, but the high e2 has me anxious and am breaking out a lot on my back and upper shoulders.

I do know that HCG monotherapy causes high spikes of e2 but wasn’t aware that Anastrozole couldn’t control it, I guess my doctor didn’t either! I need to reread those stickies.

What’s your thoughts on just dropping down my dose to let things settle, i.e. e2 & hemocrit?

For an AI, any suggestions? I’ve heard good things about stane, that it’s more tolerable than adex. I understand it’s a suicide AI too.


#7

“suicide AI” is meaningless when you take 10’s if mg per day instead of 1mg per week. All of that “suicide AI” is useless hype.

“more tolerable than adex”: problem was probably E2 levels, not adex

Some guys testes over-react to hCG [or SERM’s]. They should be injecting T to get there T levels up and use small amounts of hCG to preserve their testes. Mono is not an option for everyone. Rarely ever works for older guys.


#8

I appreciate your feedback KSman.

Any recomendation of an AI to help me control e2?

I decided to try something different a try lower doses of HCG, I lowered my HCG dose to 250iu 3 times a week. I also had some left over adex and just started that again, .20mg twice a week. I don’t plan on continuing the adex for long but hopefully it’ll help bring e2 down a little as well as the lower dose of HCG.


#9

Hey KS, I read your sticky for TRT protocol and I wanted to ask about Arimidex and HCG. What is the best timing, would it be the same and take on the day of the shot?
I have some Arimidex laying around and my e2 is at 70 so I figured I use it since I have it. They are .20mg minitroche’s that I dissolve under my tongue. I’ve been taking one the day after my shot, twice a week but my HCG regimend is EOD 3 times a week.


#10

If you do things frequently as I suggest, then you can simplify things and take T, anastrozole and hCG at the same time, to keep things easy.


#11

I didn’t want to give up just yet on the HCG. Beings I will most likely have to take an AI regardless if I use Test too, I may as well try it with the HCG. I am hoping a lower dose of HCG + AI (at the correct timing) will leave me with decent labs.

If in 4 weeks my labs show low T, I’ll proceed with Test most likely.

KS, do you know the “life” of Estradiol in the male body?


#12

When is next blood draw ?
Interested !


#13

[quote]Macmathews wrote:
When is next blood draw ?
Interested ![/quote]

I should be going next Thursday. I’m curious to see what happens at the lower dose. So far it’s been 2 solid weeks and feel good.

Are you using HCG mono Macmatthews?


#14

[quote]JD-Max wrote:

[quote]Macmathews wrote:
When is next blood draw ?
Interested ![/quote]

I should be going next Thursday. I’m curious to see what happens at the lower dose. So far it’s been 2 solid weeks and feel good.

Are you using HCG mono Macmatthews?
[/quote]

Currently nothing , but my libido knows it.

Looking at options other than test injections