T Nation

Recent Lab Results

So i’m on 200mg Test C a week. Is there a way to lower Estroidal levels without AI’s or lowering Test dosage? What about low SHBG? Thanks

You could reduce your dose, or split it into two injections, which may allow you to do something like 80mg 2x/wk and still keep your test levels but bring down E2.

Are you having any high E2 symptoms? If not, and you are feeling good, I wouldn’t do anything.


Your free T is setting right at the top of the FreeT range. It sucks you are not into doing an AI.

Your one big slug of T a week is not helping your SHGB which really sucks at 9 the only thing worse than a 9 would be a 60. I’d break up your dose to 3 a week. M/W/F Consider sub Q as well since it slows the adsorbtion of T reducing T spikes which should help reduce E2.
Guys with low SHGB usually feel their best with a low E2 like 20-27
Is you dick still working at 56?

Did you get your HCT tested? It is a good idea for guys running the high end of TRT to monitor their HCT. High doses of T over time will thicken your blood. Sometimes it will make it too thick. Keep an eye on your blood pressure that is usually a good gauge.

I hope you found my comments useful.

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Your best bet is to inject daily doses due to extremely low SHBG, otherwise you may experience free hormone excess which low SHBG men deal with on frequent dosing.

You’re free estrogen must be insanely high! Larger infrequent dosing will only cause more symptoms and makes you estrogen dominate.

Also once weekly dosing causes big swings in levels, basically you’re on a hormonal rollercoaster.

DIM, supposedly hot lemon water helps, I have no first hand experience with it. Taking a small dose of AI for a while won’t kill you. You probably only need a little once or twice a week. It’s not Ebola, it’s not that big a deal. Are you dosing one shot a week or splitting it up right now? How long have you been on TRT? Test C has a 7 or 8 day half-life, so you are likely very steady in your levels either way, that’s kind of the point of using an ester.

Thank you all. I have been on 200mg one shot a week for about 2 months, i was on 300mg a week for about a year or so prior. My doctor has only tested for free test in the past, he is not an endocrinologist and right now there isn’t one within 3 hours of where i live. this is the 1st time having tested for everything else on there (i had to tell him from looking online what i wanted tested).
so would it be better to dose twice a week for shbg? should i drop my dosage to 100mg for the estrogen levels? like i said, i’m not getting answers from my doctor so i figure this is the place for true info. thanks again

I would not drop the dose. If you do that, don’t do anything else. It would probably be better to try twice a week instead of once and see how that goes. Give it a few weeks.

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Hi gator, Not everyone can have the greatest doctor but if you can get a T script from him everything else is pretty easy. If you are dead set on not taking an AI for your over range E2 then I would try 120 mg/wk divided into two shots. Give this 6 weeks and ask the doc if he will give you a new blood test. TT/FT/E2/HCT/SHGB you don’t need anything else.
I hope that helps.

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There is no correlation between this SHBG, E2, and how one feels. It’s one of the largest misconceptions/myths about TRT out there today.

My dick works with E2 double the reference range.

OP could try inject 2-3x/wk, however the clinical significance between 1-2/3x/wk for most given the half life of test C is minor, and such a minor fluctuation in hormonal status won’t mean much.

What @gator_rassler needs to check is glucose tolerance and insulin sensitivity, thyroid etc (insulin resistance is the most common cause of absurdly low SHBG, otherwise it can be genetic).

excess aromatisation can be related to impaired clearance of hormones (mediated by liver function), thus liver detox sups can help immensely.

No literature or evidence to back up ED dosing with long esters, my SHBG has consistently tested low (aside from the odd 30), recently my SHBG was 14, E2 was 2x ref range, T was nearly 2x ref range as was free T, I feel great, no problems.

Have you noticed on some bloods, people with low SHBG don’t have excess free T? It isn’t due to the stickiness of SHBG, test also binds to albumin etc. Finally, free E in ratio to Free T isn’t a problem.

At MAX a 1x/wk dose would have like a 50% swing in hormonal levels, a mans natural circadian rhythm will incur a 30 % ish swing in levels, less if you’re older based on literature

AI use in conjunction with T will fuck with you’re lipids and potentially glucose tolerance (estrogen plays an important role in glucose and cholesterol management). Estrogen is also important for serotonin maintenance and NO production (NO is key for erections)

I’m sure I’ll receive backlash for this post, thus I’m going to tag Dr Sir just in case I get flamed. @physioLojik

If anyone wishes to counter argue with me, use literature and/or scientific evidence to back up said arguments.


you are so funny sometimes unreal. I’m not going to give you flack or care if physiolojic disagrees with my postion. My advice is based on my personal experience with many blood test to verify it not some experiment performed on mice 10 years ago that I read about. The OP is free to do whatever he wants and I don’t really care. I offer what worked for me and hope it works for them. When you get older you will develop the ability to not give a F when other disagree with you its just not important enough to worry about. You throw your advice out there the members can take it or leave it.

Then check this out


It’s not about not giving a fuck, it’s about scientific evidence, I have similar issues with organised religion (when evangelical christians tell me I need god… because I’ve been told this before, or that being an atheist is a cop-out) I’m not an atheist, I believe something is out there beyond my understanding, but I don’t know what it is nor could I ever comprehend it. Anyway people making blanket statements like the earth started. with Adam and Eve, sure, believe it if you want, however unless you can show me unequivocal scientific proof this is how the world began, don’t push that agenda, same can be said (in my opinion) about the whole SHBG fiasco on TRT. If catering to these ED shots, injection frequencies based on SHBG, going by E2 numbers etc works for you than good, however without scientific evidence I’d be hesitant to dispense advice on it.

It’s like deca and joint pain, I’d never recommend someone uses nandrolone to cure joint pain as there is no scientific body of evidence (well… actually there is a very weak body of evidence, more than the TRT, SHBG argument) behind it, yet some people swear by it (and I think it works, I’ve tried it once, however my joint pain is nowhere near bad enough to warrant experimentation with the compound due to the risks involved)

Clinic experience is all one needs, which Dr. Crisler had plenty of experience. So forget your literature, we don’t need it as we have doctors with experience. I don’t understand your resistance to learning from those who have clinical experience and have devoted their life’s work to the studying SHBG.

Daily dosing is another tool in the toolbox that had proven to work for some men regardless of SHBG levels, it’s effective at lowering estrogen and this is Dr Saya experience after treating over 10,000 patients. Forget your studies are start paying attention to the people who know more than we do, pay attention to the people who specialize in hormones for a living and make a career out of it.

As it stands now the OP is asking for advice and would like to avoid using an AI and I gave him his best chance at doing exactly that. All you’ve done so far is troll other members giving sound advice that has proven to work time and time again.

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Sir I did help, I told him liver detox supps can help with excess E clearance, to get liver function, thyroid, glucose tolerance etc checked.

The video wasn’t a troll, it was a legitimately funny video, check it out, if you find it funny then check out Rick and Morty, it’s like my fifth favorite cartoon (Bojack horseman is my favorite) I have a strange affinity towards cartoons, esp cynical depressing, darkly comedic cartoons, Bojack horseman perfectly fits that bill.

You can say fuck my studies or that I’m trolling, there’s no need to edit it out like you did. Unreal24278 doesn’t take offence, if he took offence to such slight comments his days at school would be absolutely awful, instead they’re just bearable.

Lots of doctors (and individuals) have conflicting opinions. However I’d be wary about pushing ideas without scientific backing

This doctor here thinks nandrolone is like… The holy grain for pain, most doctors will vehermontly disagree with this. There’s doctors that’ll still prescribe benzodiazepines for insomnia despite the fact that tolerance tends to build with prolonged use of these meds and thus chronic use (for most benzodiazepines in most situations… There are exceptions) is not appropriate.

I’m not intending to be offensive, if I’m coming off as brash or dicky it’s not my intention

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We live in a world where evidence is you require is unavailable, until then anecdotal evidence is all we got and any action is better than none. It’s better than waiting around for your scientific backing.

You do come off as extremely arrogant, combative and maybe that’s because you are. This isn’t the first time you’ve trolled multiple members looking for a debate in this forum while hijacking the thread in the process, it’s happened before on multiple occasions and gets a little old.

I do apologize if I come off as arrogant or combative, if you ever meet me in person you’ll find I’m one of the least arguementative people you’ll ever meet, not important though.

However as to me trolling or seeking attention… What the hell are you talking about man, trolling would be like if I posted a rickroll video or something, I’m just trying to deter people from potentially following advice that could do more harm than good in the long run.

Sure, if ED shots with long estered test works for you than fine, so be it. However long term more frequent injections equates to more build up of scar tissue… This isn’t a good thing, it’s about mitigating harms, so if a protocal isn’t nesseccary, then why do it?

If you want to pin ED use sustanon, test prop or TNE, as a matter of fact if one was willing to do this it’d pretty accurately mimick natural circadium rhythm (with tne or prop, not Sus)

SHBG has clinical significance with regard to the diagnosis of hypogonadism (say an SHBG of 150 or something stupid, an individual might have high TT but super low FT and thus be symptomatic)

Dosing and protocal should be catered toward symptom relief, not SHBG numbers on a blood test ( and SHBG can fluctuate a TON )

My debates I’m looking for aren’t examples of me trying to start fights, it’s examples of me trying to correct potentially harmful advice being dispensed.

But whatever man, we can agree to disagree


@unreal24278 keep posting man. Your insight is appreciated.

Btw everyone op has yet to tell us how he feels?? His e2 may not be causing him symptoms.

So we don’t know how he feels and are giving advice based on a single lab. :man_facepalming:t3:

This is a great post @unreal24278. Anyone who knows your posts knows you are definitely not arrogant. The reality is people are going to do what they do regardless of what studies you show. If they feel better doing it then they feel better doing it - it is not rooted in any science fact whatsoever; that being said, the psychology of the mind is a powerful thing and if someone feels better doing this then that’s on them.

I fully appreciate your posts and knowledge and time commitments you give to posting them.

If my patient had a low shbg, I’d be more looking into why that is. Glucose, insulin, high inflammation etc. building a protocol off of one lab showing one result isn’t prudent.

Also @unreal24278 you’re also correct - shbg fluctuates wildly during the day based on a ton of factors. Hormones aren’t static numbers. They change dramatically during the day. Original poster didn’t post labs that show a lot of relevant info as well - metabolic panels, etc. we see a tiny part of the info.

Yee, zany , eccentric, slightly immature and autismy is potentially a more accurate description


What you’re doing is attacking other members advice because you think it may be harmful, but offer no explanation why it’s harmful or provide any evidence to support your claim. It’s not your job to critic other members advice or else you will always come off a combative troll looking for a debate/attention.

You can however provide you own advice and respect others advice who has helped many other members find success, sure you can disagree, but take it somewhere else to where you don’t draw attention to yourself like someone looking for attention and derail someone else’s thread.

You come off as a narcissist which I would expect said person offer his own advice and attack everyone else’s as wrong without any proof to the contrary. That is the definition of a narcissist, you’re right and everyone else is potentially wrong.

I don’t feel that @unreal24278 has ever come across as narcissistic. He has always tried to be helpful to the best of his ability.

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