T Nation

Recent Kroc Article Modified Program

I am in no way taking credit for Kroc’s recent leg program or telling anyone to do this program unless there is a very positive response to it.

I really liked Kroc’s progression scheme, so I added subsequent days for bench, press, and less volume deadlift.

Week One: 5 x 75%, 5 x 80%, 5 x 85%
Week Two: 10 sets of 5 reps @ 70%
Week Three: 4 x 77.5%, 4 x 82.5%, 4 x 87.5%
Week Four: 10 sets of 4 reps @ 72.5%
Week Five: 3 x 80%, 3 x 85%, 3 x 90%
Week Six: 10 sets of 3 reps @ 75%
Week Seven: 5 x 80%, 5 x 85%, 5 x 90%
Week Eight: 10 sets of 5 reps @ 75%
Week Nine: 4 x 82.5%, 4 x 87.5%, 4 x 92.5%
Week Ten: 10 sets of 4 reps @ 77.5%
Week Eleven: 3 x 85%, 3 x 90%, 3 x 95%
Week Twelve: 10 sets of 3 reps @ 80%

(A1) Squat Heavy:
Leg press: Work up to sets of 10, 8, and 6 reps
Lunge: 3 x 20 reps
Lying leg curl: 3 x 8 reps
Barbell stiff-legged deadlift: 3 x 8 reps

(B1) Bench Light:
Slight Incline DB: 4 x 15 reps
Pec Deck: 3 x 30 reps
DB Overhead Exts: 3 x 15 reps
Lying Behind Head Tricep Exts: 3 x15 reps

Off

(C1) Deadlift Heavy:
DB Row: Work up to sets of 10, 8, and 6 reps
CNG Pulldown: 3 x 20 reps
Standing Crunch: 3 x 10 reps
Hanging Leg Raises: 3 x 10 reps

Off

(D1) Press Light:
Seated DB Press: 4 x 15 reps
Reverse High Cable X’s: 3 x 30 reps
Machine Laterals: 3 x 15 reps
Hammer Curl: 3 x 15 reps
Preacher Curl: 3 x 15 reps

Off

(A2) Squat Light:
Leg press: 4 x 25 reps
Leg extension: 3 x 30 reps
Lying leg curl: 3 x 15 reps
Dumbbell stiff-legged deadlift: 3 x15 reps

(B2) Bench Heavy:
Slight Incline DB: Work up to sets of 10, 8, and 6 reps
DB Flys: 3 x 20 reps
Lying Behind Head Tricep Exts: 3 x 8 reps
Dips: 3 x 8 reps

Off

(C2) Deadlift Light (5 Sets):
DB Row: 3 x 25 reps + 1 Kroc Set
WNG Row or Pulldown: 3 x 30 reps
Machine Crunch: 3 x 20 reps
Incline Board Leg Raises: 3 x 20 reps

Off

(D2) Press Heavy:
Seated DB Press: Work up to sets of 10, 8, and 6 reps
Reverse Pec Deck: 3 x 20 reps
Seated Laterals: 3 x 10 reps
Pinwheel Curl: 3 x 8 reps
Rope Curl: 3 x 8 reps

*On bench days do an exact number of inverted rows as you did bench reps mimicking the bench movement but as a row.

*On press days do an exact number of chin-ups as you did press reps using various grips.

Does not matter when you do them just do them.

The weeks are switched for bench/press and squat/deadlift so whenever you are squatting/deadlifting heavy, you’re benching/pressing light.

This is not a competitive powerlifting program, it’s just for a dude who likes to lift heavy shit.

Some of the exercise choices I took from some of KingBeef’s splits so credit to him because I really liked some of them.

Opinions are appreciated because I will be doing this program at some point.

EDIT* OBVIOUSLY use 90% of your max and start light with all assistance work because its a 12 weeks program.

Would you adjust the training max at any point in the 12 weeks?

The problem I have with it is that the heaviest set in the program (95%x3) is already doable at the beginning of the program, especially if you start with 90% of your true max.

[quote]Chris87 wrote:
Would you adjust the training max at any point in the 12 weeks?

The problem I have with it is that the heaviest set in the program (95%x3) is already doable at the beginning of the program, especially if you start with 90% of your true max.[/quote]

I would never advocate for someone to begin a program using 100% of their max. Its much easier mentally to add weight to the bar then to remove it.

So if someone feels comfortable adjusting their max by 10-30lbs then I see no reason why not, but in my eyes the hard part wouldn’t be the heavy weeks.

Kroc stressed “speed” throughout and 45-60 second rest periods during lighter weeks, which could be challenging.

I’m going to give this program a go in a few weeks when I’m done with my current conditioning cycle. I squat low-bar on Mondays and I’ll do high-bar for this program on Fridays. Can’t wait to see the size gains in my legs.

CS

[quote]CSEagles1694 wrote:
I’m going to give this program a go in a few weeks when I’m done with my current conditioning cycle. I squat low-bar on Mondays and I’ll do high-bar for this program on Fridays. Can’t wait to see the size gains in my legs.

CS[/quote]

I know you’ve made a lot of progress lately, so I’ll be checking in to see how it goes

[quote]Kakarat wrote:

I would never advocate for someone to begin a program using 100% of their max. Its much easier mentally to add weight to the bar then to remove it.

[/quote]

Just curious, why not? Wendler’s program is designed to take 10% off the max to start, as far as I know, Krock’s isn’t. I just started Krock’s leg program today using my true max and the reps felt about like they should have, IMO. I’ve also run Smolov using my tested, true max from the week before with great results.

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]Kakarat wrote:

I would never advocate for someone to begin a program using 100% of their max. Its much easier mentally to add weight to the bar then to remove it.

[/quote]

Just curious, why not? Wendler’s program is designed to take 10% off the max to start, as far as I know, Krock’s isn’t. I just started Krock’s leg program today using my true max and the reps felt about like they should have, IMO. I’ve also run Smolov using my tested, true max from the week before with great results.
[/quote]

IME using 90% ensures that you can get the most out of a program. I’d rather do a program using a solid clean rep at my estimated 90%, than using my true 100% which definitely has flaws.

This also ensures that every rep is clean and reinforcing your form the way you want it to, and at no point will you be fighting the weight to “finish the program.”

I can apply this to this program in two ways:

  1. How can you be absolutely sure that on week 10 you wont have stalled using 100% of your max?

  2. Say you got to week twelve using 90% and your squat feels great. You feel awesome and your form has never been cleaner. So you do this.

Week Thirteen: 5 x 85%, 5 x 90%, 5 x 95%
Week Fourteen: 10 sets of 5 reps @ 80%
Week Fifteen: 4 x 87.5%, 4 x 92.5%, 4 x 97.5%
Week Sixteen: 10 sets of 4 reps @ 82.5%
Week Seventeen: 3 x 90%, 3 x 95%, 3 x 100%
Week Eighteen: 10 sets of 3 reps @ 85%

Obviously these things will vary from person to person and program to program, but from what I’ve seen with myself and others 90% is optimal. You can always adjust during the program as well.

However, if someone feels comfortable with 100%, then by all means. But IMO 90% is better in the long run.

[quote]Chris87 wrote:
Would you adjust the training max at any point in the 12 weeks?

The problem I have with it is that the heaviest set in the program (95%x3) is already doable at the beginning of the program, especially if you start with 90% of your true max.[/quote]

I don’t know anyone except complete beginners that can do 3 reps at 95% of their max, at least not on bench or deadlift. Maybe it’s different for squats?

thats hopefully 3 singles.

95% with my squat would be 455. For bench, 275. For deadlift, 525. Those would be difficult triples for sure, but I think they would be doable. I know I could get 525x3.

I don’t get why people have to use a training max for a program. Just lower the base percentages. It’s the same exact effect, and you don’t have to go through an extra step.

[quote]KingKai25 wrote:

[quote]Chris87 wrote:
Would you adjust the training max at any point in the 12 weeks?

The problem I have with it is that the heaviest set in the program (95%x3) is already doable at the beginning of the program, especially if you start with 90% of your true max.[/quote]

I don’t know anyone except complete beginners that can do 3 reps at 95% of their max, at least not on bench or deadlift. Maybe it’s different for squats?[/quote]

Maybe not. I know for me I could probably get 95% for at least a double. The thing is, if someone was to use 90% as a training max, like was suggested, then that 95%x3 set is really only 85.5%, which is somewhere around a 4 or 5rm.

That’s fine if someone’s sole focus was hypertrophy and they just wanted to maintain their strength, but to use it as a strength program would be a bad idea, unless you extend the percentages for quite a while.

[quote]black_angus1 wrote:
95% with my squat would be 455. For bench, 275. For deadlift, 525. Those would be difficult triples for sure, but I think they would be doable. I know I could get 525x3.

I don’t get why people have to use a training max for a program. Just lower the base percentages. It’s the same exact effect, and you don’t have to go through an extra step.[/quote]

Hmm…I think it really might be different with squats and deadlifts then. My deadlift and squat are not as high as your’s, but 95% of my 1RM on bench would be 385, and I definitely can’t do that for more than a double.

[quote]Chris87 wrote:

[quote]KingKai25 wrote:

[quote]Chris87 wrote:
Would you adjust the training max at any point in the 12 weeks?

The problem I have with it is that the heaviest set in the program (95%x3) is already doable at the beginning of the program, especially if you start with 90% of your true max.[/quote]

I don’t know anyone except complete beginners that can do 3 reps at 95% of their max, at least not on bench or deadlift. Maybe it’s different for squats?[/quote]

Maybe not. I know for me I could probably get 95% for at least a double. The thing is, if someone was to use 90% as a training max, like was suggested, then that 95%x3 set is really only 85.5%, which is somewhere around a 4 or 5rm.

That’s fine if someone’s sole focus was hypertrophy and they just wanted to maintain their strength, but to use it as a strength program would be a bad idea, unless you extend the percentages for quite a while.[/quote]

I personally don’t believe Krock designed this program with a training max in mind. It calls for five reps at 85% in the first week. That’s 5 reps at 85% of your 1rm max at the start of the program, not some other number. Last cycle I hit this exact same weight for 5x5, albeit after that I didn’t have anything left for asst. work and it took 8 mins between sets. That said, one freaking set at this percentage just isn’t that much work, and 1 set at around 10% less would be even less work.

Also, any good program is designed to make your strength increase as the program moves on, and although the percentages called for later in the program appear high based on the starting 1rm, they are not high later in the program because it accounts for that fact that your strength has increased. Smolov, while an extreme example, is a good example to illustrate the point.

I just disagree that using a “training max” for a non-5-3-1 program that isn’t designed to use a “training max” is the right way to do it. If Krock thought it best to use lower percentages, he would have used lower percentages.