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Reasoning For “Palumboism”

I’d speculate that it’s blood flow related due to varying degrees of cardiomyopathy and heart failure. I’ve lost a bit of size and strength in my right arm due to blockage of coronary arteries and damage to the heart muscles-but I’m not that far along, or that big in the first place, so it isnt very noticeable, except that being right arm dominant, it used to be a tad bigger and a couple reps stronger than the left.

The guy in the vid is on the right track, but lookin at some confusing symptoms, as the distended abdomen does occur in diabetics, which is also often accompanied by, and a cause of heart failure.

The thing is, a typical heart failure and/or diabetic patient is not really lean and jacked like these guys often are, and no one would really look at them and think “heart failure”.

So that’s my brosplanation based on my newfound favorite subject. Weak pumps can’t push as much as far, so the extremities suffer.

It’s very possible, this is an awesome theory! Typically cardiac impairment for the most part within elite athletes/bodybuilders tends to be subclinical in nature up until “end stage” irreversible dialated cardiomyopathy sets in. They may have fucking massive, juicy (pun intended) hearts. But depending on the body of literature one is looking at, ejection fractions either remain preserved, subclinically impaired or sometimes drastically reduced.

Even with cardiomyopathy notwithstanding the risk of arrhythmia, one should still be able to selectively get a pump whilst exercising as blood shuttles towards the particular area getting worked.

As to peripheral artery disease, if it was extreme enough to induce this level of atrophy you’d probably see gangrene setting in towards the bodybuilders extremities.

With the diabetes, it’s an interesting phenomenon. High dosage anabolic steroids appear to induce some degree of insulin resistance (coupled with GH and its a diabetic nightmare).

As to whether bodybuilders are critically diabetic resulting in amyotrophy, peripheral vascular disease etc I doubt it. That being said, the body composition of the insulin resistant bodybuilder can/will starkly differ from that of the sedentary male with insulin resistance/metabolic syndrome.

The biggest risk imo in relation to the maladaptive cardiac enlargement associated with bodybuilding is arrhythmia. Heart failure being a close second. It’s interesting in that many of these bodybuilders with CHF manage to be somewhat asymptomatic… not sure how that works…

Because weight lifting is anaerobic. And “cardio sucks”. :joy:

For real though- You get waaaay on down the road telling oneself stories about why you get gassed so easily, while still being able to move a few hundred lbs.

Then one night story time is over.

Given it’s considerable importance in the hierarchy of our basic mechanisms, I think there is some built in redundancy to the hearts capacity and how your blood, as a resource, is allocated. Like, heart/lungs, brain,… Everything else.

With symptomatic CHF many also have edema around the lower extremities in association with renal perfusion (increased production of renin = aldosterone production =
Fluid retention). You have left/right sided heart failure and bilateral failure

Left sided heart failure typically effects lung function, right sided is associated with the fluid retention. Many cases of CHF involve bilateral heart failure. Unless bodybuilders are only being explicitly effected by left side heart failure I can’t understand as to why they don’t present with many of the traditional symptoms of heart failure

As to cardio, I really like long duration, low/medium intensity cardio. Put on some music, go for a cycle and vibe out in my own head. I’d imagine cardio would be difficult if you were humongous like some of these guys.

I find cardio to be more difficult than lifting weights. Even 20 rep squats can’t really compare to cycling out in the blistering heat, or in 50mph winds (ye, I’ve tried this… and I DID manage to fall off the bike as a result)

I dunno. Looking back, I didn’t have any clear signs of it. Not really any edema in hands or feet of note, or much else that one would recognize as symptoms. Just easily tired from typical stuff that I’d chalk up to smoking. And dead toenails (I know, that’s icky), and just “not like I used to be”.

Given that a lot of these dudes have access to diuretics amongst many other things , they could appear just spiffy. Especially with the way they blast their systems with dosing. I’d hate to imagine what dose of Lasix a veteran BB’r takes if he’s getting “puffy”. If it weren’t for the arterial blockage causing myocardial infarction, I could have kept chugging along for who knows how long with progressively lower ejection fraction due to the wall thickening.

As always though, I could be entirely off the mark on this. I don’t want to jam up the thread with too much personal anecdote which may not apply to the subject.

Did you have reduced ejection fraction/wall thickening prior to MI? It’s possible you didn’t have CHF prior to MI

A myocardial infarction induces a cascade of downstream effects regarding intracellular signalling. Structural/functional alteration occurs in response to loss of viable myocardial tissue, inflammatory response etc. Abrupt loss of viable cardiac myocytes will induce excess collagen deposition within the myocardium

Ventricular remodelling/dialation can occur for quite a while post MI (until tensile strength lost via MI has been neutralised by the collagen deposition/Myocardial scarring). This fibrosis can predispose one to malignant, abnormal rhythms.

Didn’t you initially say you worked an intensive manual job while you were smoking? Wouldn’t it be a red flag if you suddenly felt run down? The statistics behind tobacco and incidence of cardiovascular disease amongst smokers is terrifying.

Kids keep talking about “lung cancer” (i.e I don’t care if I get lung cancer 60 years from now from my smoking)… truth is, statistically speaking it’s still unlikely you’ll acquire lung cancer if you smoke. Even emphysema/COPD. About 10-15 percent of smokers develop COPD, about 20% develop emphysema

Myocardial infarctions, coronary artery disease, ischemic/haemorrhagic stroke etc, these are the big risks (in my opinion) that we need to bring to light.

AaaaaaAAAAAAAaaaaaAaAaAaaaaa

Horrifying thought.

Last post on this as I agree with you, it’d be impolite/a dick move for me to de-rail this thread

Yes to thickening. My lvef is still, and remained relatively normal, even given the damage. I was kinda sad to hear that Meadows’s is actually critically low and may require a pacemaker. There are some downstream problems with vascular elasticity, arterial blockage, high blood pressure, probably a few others.

Also did experience further accute failure in the days following, partly as a cascade response as described above and as a bad response to brilinta. It was a mess.

It wasn’t sudden, at all. It was very slow, like years. And, in fact, was cutting trees and chucking logs around 2 days prior. Aerobic vs. Anaerobic.

I have a ridiculous story about this I won’t contaminate the thread with.

One would literally become a mutant if this was to happen. I’m convinced since the Dave Palumbo we see today simply has to be one.

But seriously, is it even possible for AR saturation to occur given the amount of GH concurrently being used, which enables further upregulation of AR? Didn’t we debunk the “excess hypertrophy of the shoulder region due to the presence of more AR” theory since the bros didn’t take AR upregulation into account?

And why the fuck is it called “Palumboism” any way? Sounds more like an ideology than a medical term.

“I think looking like a ninja turtle is the most aesthetic.”

“What are you? A Palumboist?”

Maybe they should introduce a new division specifically for Palumboists.

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GH to my knowledge doesn’t increase the number of AR present within skeletal muscle. A synergistic effect does appear to exist when AAS/GH are concurrently used, though the mechanisms by which both drugs induce muscular hypertrophy differ.

As to whether AR saturation is possible… Who knows, it wouldn’t be ethical to conduct research into this.

As to the shoulders/neck and AAS. It isn’t really a theory, we have data showing a higher concentration of AR to be present within these sites. It would make sense that AAS could more reliably induce AR up-regulation/a hypertrophic response within specific sites that have more AR to begin with. Imagine AR up-regulation/synthesis of new AR universally occurs during AAS use. The shoulders/neck still have more receptors at baseline. More receptors are synthesised/existing receptors are up regulated. As a result the shoulders/neck/traps STILL have more receptors when all is said and done.

You mean… Aliens…

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I didn’t mean there isn’t a higher concentration of AR in that region. The theory is that ALL the AR in the body have been saturated , which is why there would be disproportionate growth in said region.

If all AR within the body theoretically could be saturated, there are still more receptors within the shoulders, neck and traps getting bound to.

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Yes, which is why I said the theory I mentioned was debunked because of AR upregulation which would prevent saturation from taking place unless you’re really going batshit with the androgens. Jeff Seid isn’t using 20g of androgens a week.

Someone’s going to find a way to make that term political somehow. I’m sticking with at least Palumboists. Seems discriminatory to exclude them.

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In theory AR saturation could occur with up-regulation being present. If all receptor sites are bound to, saturation is present.

That being said, AAS use concurrently allows for the synthesis of new AR

Synthesis of new AR + up-regulation of existing AR would make it very difficult for saturation/super-saturation to occur

JeFf SeId is NATTY!

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Yes, dude, that’s what I’m saying lol. Pros wouldn’t be injecting synthol into their delts if this weren’t the case, let alone those Jeff Seid sized dudes. I’ve been trying to explain this to people for years but they don’t get it because of people like the guy in the video in the first post.

Yes, after much consideration, I’ll have to admit I was wrong since I believe Mike O’Hearne is natty too.

As is Simeon Panda. Why would he lie? He says he’s natty, therefore he is

Anyone who believes otherwise is just jealous

Cardio with no arms, an extra scoop of BCAAS after every workout, 3049 eggs per day and you’re there.

You just don’t understand how hard he works.

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Jesus Christ he(the guy who made the video in the first post) has a video all about: “Did Jordan Peterson Lie About Getting A Hair Transplant?”.

Seriously, WHO GIVES A FUCK? Oh yeah he made that news chick look like a dumbass a couple of years ago because he didn’t have a natty hairline.

Why do people watch this shit lol?

*disclaimer

I’m not familiar with the works of JP, nor is this an endorsement of his work, nor should it be in anyway construed to be any indication of my political leanings. All I know is a dumbass got made to look like a dumbass by a well spoken gentleman who didn’t really need to use much intellectual prowess to make her look like a dumbass since she’s already a dumbass.

I watched a 2 minute clip of Vince McMahon talking about the retirement of The Undertaker.

I haven’t watched WWE for 20 years but Vince is now off the juice and has the head of a ventriloquist dummy.

I’m not sure that I give a shit but it’s hard not to comment on something so strikingly strange. If a clip about how weird Vince McMahon is now popped up in my feed, I might watch it lol

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