T Nation

Rear Delt and Back Training

Slowly rounding back into shape at 50 years of age and being disabled.

I have my basic routine as:
Monday Chest
Tuesday Legs
Wed Rest
Thurs Back/Bi
Fri Shoulder/Tri

This has worked very well for me as far as getting back into good general form and not too much pain.

I have had some shoulder surgery and prefer to keep Chest and shoulder separated by break.

QUESTION:
I noticed that a lot of the recommended rear delt work mimicked a lot of my perception of back exercises- reverse flye type exercises.

So my problem is: How to now properly seperate bodyparts as I do not want to hit back and shoulders on succesive days IF I am not able to find rear delt work that does not pull my back into the mix.

Any suggestions appreciated

You’ll be more than fine with back recovery if you do a few sets of bent over laterals the next day.

Do your rear delt work on back day. Problem solved.

[quote]hungry4more wrote:
Do your rear delt work on back day. Problem solved. [/quote]

This. 3-4 sets of facepulls at the end of a back routine works well.

Could he also try to isolate this way? first, pull back shoulder blades, so they’re out of the picture, then do the reverse flye, now that only rear delt is available to move it?
And isn’t the weight used for this so low, it may actually improve recovery of the back? (flow some blood etc)?

Eh. It’s not that simple.

Its far more effective, meaning allowing for better progress, to just do things the conventional way.

The weights used for rear delt flies are low, but only comapred to something like a deadlift. If a person is capable of rear dealt flying the 50lb DBs with good form for 12 reps you cant raelly call that “low weight”. No one should be aiming to lift low weights.

Of course I was talking relatively light, and, Really? your rear delts can pull 50lb held straight?
or does it become a compound move with the mid traps doing most of the work, due to lack of isolation?

Do you guys like face pulls better than reverse pec decks? I’ve never tried face pulls, I think I’ll give them a try tomorrow.

[quote]xilinx wrote:
Of course I was talking relatively light, and, Really? your rear delts can pull 50lb held straight?
or does it become a compound move with the mid traps doing most of the work, due to lack of isolation?[/quote]

No one can isolate their rear delts. It’s impossible. Spend some time in a gym and learn this stuff. And what does having the weight held straight out, no bend in the elbow I assume you mean, have to do with it? What’s the point of that?

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]xilinx wrote:
Of course I was talking relatively light, and, Really? your rear delts can pull 50lb held straight?
or does it become a compound move with the mid traps doing most of the work, due to lack of isolation?[/quote]

No one can isolate their rear delts. It’s impossible. Spend some time in a gym and learn this stuff. And what does having the weight held straight out, no bend in the elbow I assume you mean, have to do with it? What’s the point of that?[/quote]

100% agreed, listen too bonez - get jacked

[quote]xilinx wrote:
Of course I was talking relatively light, and, Really? your rear delts can pull 50lb held straight?
or does it become a compound move with the mid traps doing most of the work, due to lack of isolation?[/quote]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ALq0DO-7nM

I like that dead stop variation… But I use a block because I can’t get all the way down like he does without rounding my lower back…

And don’t be a pussy with the exercise. What good will 20 lb rear laterals do you? No one expects you to start using the 50’s or more right away, but progression is the name of the game…

Another great exercise where you can safely go heavy (much moreso than on the DB rear raises) are face pulls done in the lat-pulldown station, leaning back.
Mike Wolfe loves those… He does them with a wide neutral grip on a special bar, but a regular straight bar will do the trick as well… Pull towards your neck or so.

And finally there’s always the reverse pec deck, where you get about as much rear delt isolation as you can… Seriously, rear delts and upper back work together, the only way to shift emphasis more to the rear delts that I can think of is to keep your shoulder blades constantly pinched together during the exercise… But that’s awkward and you’re missing out on one of the main benefits of rear delt training then…

I’d rather make the retraction part of each rep, as in, start out in neutral and then retract until they are fully together at the “top” of the rep, then reverse that on the negative.

Edit: Hope the vid shows up this time.
And you already mentioned the shoulder blades part, my bad. Hadn’t read your other post before responding.

Thanks, CC, I see your point. However, I’m still not sure, than, why add these at all, if you’re doing rows and deadlifts. Isn’t the point of isolation work, well, to isolate? and yes, it IS awkward.
Haven’t tries face pulls on the lat pulldown, but in the sitting row machine. I’ll try your version next time, it makes more mechanical sense.

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]xilinx wrote:
Of course I was talking relatively light, and, Really? your rear delts can pull 50lb held straight?
or does it become a compound move with the mid traps doing most of the work, due to lack of isolation?[/quote]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ALq0DO-7nM

I like that dead stop variation… But I use a block because I can’t get all the way down like he does without rounding my lower back…

And don’t be a pussy with the exercise. What good will 20 lb rear laterals do you? No one expects you to start using the 50’s or more right away, but progression is the name of the game…

Another great exercise where you can safely go heavy (much moreso than on the DB rear raises) are face pulls done in the lat-pulldown station, leaning back.
Mike Wolfe loves those… He does them with a wide neutral grip on a special bar, but a regular straight bar will do the trick as well… Pull towards your neck or so.

And finally there’s always the reverse pec deck, where you get about as much rear delt isolation as you can… Seriously, rear delts and upper back work together, the only way to shift emphasis more to the rear delts that I can think of is to keep your shoulder blades constantly pinched together during the exercise… But that’s awkward and you’re missing out on one of the main benefits of rear delt training then…

I’d rather make the retraction part of each rep, as in, start out in neutral and then retract until they are fully together at the “top” of the rep, then reverse that on the negative.

Edit: Hope the vid shows up this time.
And you already mentioned the shoulder blades part, my bad. Hadn’t read your other post before responding.

[/quote]

I am going to try that lat pulldown face pull thing. Thanks, C_C.

[quote]htargett wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]xilinx wrote:
Of course I was talking relatively light, and, Really? your rear delts can pull 50lb held straight?
or does it become a compound move with the mid traps doing most of the work, due to lack of isolation?[/quote]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ALq0DO-7nM

I like that dead stop variation… But I use a block because I can’t get all the way down like he does without rounding my lower back…

And don’t be a pussy with the exercise. What good will 20 lb rear laterals do you? No one expects you to start using the 50’s or more right away, but progression is the name of the game…

Another great exercise where you can safely go heavy (much moreso than on the DB rear raises) are face pulls done in the lat-pulldown station, leaning back.
Mike Wolfe loves those… He does them with a wide neutral grip on a special bar, but a regular straight bar will do the trick as well… Pull towards your neck or so.

And finally there’s always the reverse pec deck, where you get about as much rear delt isolation as you can… Seriously, rear delts and upper back work together, the only way to shift emphasis more to the rear delts that I can think of is to keep your shoulder blades constantly pinched together during the exercise… But that’s awkward and you’re missing out on one of the main benefits of rear delt training then…

I’d rather make the retraction part of each rep, as in, start out in neutral and then retract until they are fully together at the “top” of the rep, then reverse that on the negative.

Edit: Hope the vid shows up this time.
And you already mentioned the shoulder blades part, my bad. Hadn’t read your other post before responding.

[/quote]

I am going to try that lat pulldown face pull thing. Thanks, C_C.[/quote]

And when doing them it makes sense to put a foot up on the knee pads. You should be able to get up to around a weight that will pull you off balance pretty soon after doing these. Using your foot for stability will allow you to progress.

And to the guy asking “why do them if you do rows”. Why do bicep curls if you chinups? Why do Triceps extensions if you bench press? Multiple muscle groups are involved to some degree in almost every lift worth doing. People do facepulls and rear delt flys to add extra volume to a particular area of their body in an effort to build a balanced physique.

What I do specifically with Rear Delts in mind are three things:

Dead Stop Rear Delt Flye

Dead Stop One Arm Hammer Grip Rear Delt Flye

Dead Stop Bent-Over DB Row, ( I pull these so high that the DB’s are at face level ).

Other thoughts:

I think High BB Rows, contribute to the Rear Delts, as well as anything, just another reason to BB Row to chest level, sometimes not just the trunk.

Think of this like an inversion of the ( BB’er style ) Flat BB Bench Press.

C_C and BoneZ, thanks for your input. I’ve tried the lat pulldown face pull today, and its a great addition to my arsenal. I thought it would be similar to rack reverse rows (pullup with legs and body elevated), but the loading is different. The legs on the knee pad tip helped find the correct position.

[quote]xilinx wrote:
C_C and BoneZ, thanks for your input. I’ve tried the lat pulldown face pull today, and its a great addition to my arsenal. I thought it would be similar to rack reverse rows (pullup with legs and body elevated), but the loading is different. The legs on the knee pad tip helped find the correct position.[/quote]

I kinda found out about these on my own for the first time last week. I don’t know if my form was exactly like C_C meant but the one time I did them, I held the contracted position for a few seconds (relatively light weight for around 12 reps) and I had a pump in my back/rear delts like never before. I know the pump itself doesn’t mean much (my rear delts didn’t grow incredibly in the last week), but the pump was really intense so you might want to try holding just to see that. I will be doing these again this week - I’ll try to report back.

hammer strength rows

Face down on low incline bench lift with pinkies leading.