Realistic TRT Recomp Progress

My libido has been better on 140/wk than it was on 180/wk. More =/= better

Though I will say my initial few weeks on TRT at 180 had my libido through the roof, but has lowered down a bit comparatively.

You can get your estrogen and prolactin checked if you want the data-based approach.

Isnā€™t this odd? Iā€™ve seen the same thing with dose increases over the years. Thereā€™s an initial Superman period, then things normalize.

On 220, E2 was 40 and PRL was 7.4. Based on my previous protocols/labs, Iā€™d guess E2 is now around 80-90. Have you seen guys improve their libido by adding a low-dose AI?

Iā€™m just a dude on the internet, so i havenā€™t seen anything per se. But having too much E is known to reduce libidoā€¦ so does having too little E. My guess is youā€™ve got too much and could benefit from minimal effective dose AI.

Seriously though, Iā€™m just a dude who wants to look like Jay Cutler - but doing so legally. I think it would be beneficial to give your hormones a few weeks to stabilize, then try an AI (for TRT).

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This is not really surprising, probably temporarily increased Dopamine followed by receptor desensitization below baseline.

Couple things that worked for me for libido:

Shorter esters or no ester. Test Prop daily was the strongest libido I ever had. Erection quality was off the charts.
Scrotal cream was great also for libido, slightly less than Prop but still awesome. Same for erection quality. I stay away from it because I donā€™t believe DHT at 10x the range is any better than E2 at 10x the range. Youā€™ll find lots of people arguing the contrary, though.

Pregnenolone, compounded pharma sustained release. Just 10mg/day sent my libido higher than when I was a teenager. Iā€™m pretty sure it wasnā€™t placebo since I didnā€™t expect any effect on libido at all.

Iā€™ve seen people have lots of success with libido by controling E2 using a small dose of AI. I think itā€™s worth a try but it would be my last resort if you feel good otherwise (mental clarity, anxiety, sleep, water retention etcā€¦).

Personally I would give Prop a try. Start at 20mg/day subQ and see how you feel. Give it time though because thatā€™s a big drop from where you are, so you might feel worse at first. You also need to take into account the time itā€™ll take for the Cypionate to leave your system (4-5 weeks).

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Something changed in your blood work is my guess. 5 weeks to reach peak stability when you upped your dose, and you felt good at first, so the right dose for you is probably somewhere in between

I use the same ones. Have you noticed any difference in taking them sublingually? Iā€™ve never tried it, but I also had no issues just eating them

Having browsed the forum awhile and just thinking in general, maybe its just the change. Whether up or downā€¦ like getting some strange. Hotter or notā€¦ its gonna perk your ass up a bit.

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Iā€™m surprised to hear this. Iā€™ve been on forums for years and havenā€™t seen recommendations of prop for libido. I wonder why.

Great to know. Why do you think the ester length is impactful in this regard?

I ordered some from Defy - hope theyā€™ll fill it! Why would you lower the dose so much (308/week to 140)? Also, why subQ rather than IM?

Thanks for all the help, brother!

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Iā€™ve noticed the same thing

I havenā€™t read your entire thread, but I think part of your problems with libido come from being on too high a dose for too long. When you hear about guys feeling great on blast or high TRT dosages, itā€™s typically not sustainable. Youā€™re catching them when theyā€™re feeling good and posting about it. Chances are if you checked on them 6 months later, assuming they kept blasting the whole time and they were honest with their feedback, they probably arenā€™t feeling so good anymore.

There might exceptions of course, but the human brain isnā€™t built to function optimally with Test levels at 5x the range. Thereā€™s evidence that supraphysiological Test levels are neurotoxic and over time through oxidative stress lead to a loss of Dopamine neurons, something you probably want to avoid.
I recommend reading this: Reddit - Dive into anything

If the link isnā€™t displayed on here, just google ā€œaas and neurodegeneration reā€¦ditā€.

Depending on what youā€™re trying to achieve, I think experimenting with lower dosages might resolve some of your issues.
Thereā€™s also evidence (clinical research) that shorter esters lead to less suppression of the HPTA than longer esters, which is one of my theories as to why some seem to feel a lot better on Prop.

If your number one priority is to get massive while completely disregarding long term health and longevity, then a drop to 140mg/week is going to be noticeable, but you might be surprised how much better Prop works than Cyp in a lot of ways. It doesnā€™t look from your pics like youā€™re trying to be absolutely massive, and personally Prop at 105mg/week for me blew 160mg/week of Cyp out of the water as far as body comp, strength and water retention. And Iā€™m not the only one with that experience.

It seems youā€™re somewhat concerned with your health long term, and I donā€™t care what anyone says I promise you running 300mg/week of Test for decades will fuck you up, no way around it. People arguing otherwise just want to justify permablasting. Which is fine, everyone should do whatever they want, I donā€™t care. But if youā€™re expecting to not suffer negative consequences from doing that, youā€™re in for a bad surprise.

Prop hits fast and hard because the half-life is so short (~20 hours). Some people do IM and like it that way, personally IM left me feeling a little too amped up and wired for my taste, despite feeling great otherwise. SubQ seems steadier while retaining most of the benefits of IM.

Besides libido, Prop gives me the best mood by far and best workouts, pumps, and drive in the gym. Iā€™d try both IM and subQ, but I would start with subQ and see how you feel.

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Iā€™ve learned so much from you today, man ā€” thank you!

This is a good point. Posts are merely snapshots. I wouldnā€™t say thereā€™s anyone I respect on any of the forums who has ever advocated running a super high dose long-term. I wonder what the massive-dose-TRT crowd will think in a few yearsā€™ timeā€¦when I first started TRT, I was heavily influenced by Keith Nichols, who was advocating high dosages.

Thanks for the link. Great read. This absolutely makes sense. I read Dopamine Nation last year - itā€™s the key to so much in our lives.

Tren sounds like a complete nightmare; Iā€™d never touch it. Interesting to know Nandrolone is also bad. Do you take TUDCA?

Iā€™m excited to try this out. I might go to 180/week because thatā€™s my prescribed dose (through my local doctor; Defy has me at 308), at least at first. But open to an even lower dose.

Given the short ester, does prop need to be injected ED? Iā€™ve had difficulty lately getting enough syringes. NH is requiring a prescription and you canā€™t buy online anymore. So thatā€™s a hurdle. I currently inject EOD with an insulin syringe.

If anyone has tips for securing more syringes, please weigh in!

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Nah, definitely not. Donā€™t get me wrong, I want to be jacked, but quality of life/mood are more important. Libido is a huge part of that, at least for me - the two tend to go hand-in-hand.

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Of course man, Iā€™m glad if any of this ends up being helpful!

Same, haha. So much of our livesā€¦itā€™s crazy.

Iā€™ve never tried it. Iā€™m very lucky when it comes to liver health and cholesterol, HDL runs around 70-80 typically and AST/ALT below 20, so Iā€™ve never taken anything for either.
Iā€™m also trying to limit the number of things I take until I feel fully fine tuned along the three main axes Iā€™ve determined have the most impact ( 1) Testosterone ester length and injection frequency to control the gap between peak and trough levels and the cycle length from peak to peak. 2) Estrogen control, which could be none. 3) Neurosteroid supplementation (Preg/DHEA/Prog) )

I think thatā€™s a fine dose to start with. You can always go down to 140-150mg/week as an experiment later if you want to.

Some guys do Prop EoD, and even though on paper you should be low by the end of those 48 hours, they say they subjectively feel great on the protocol. Personally Iā€™ve always done ED injections on Prop so I canā€™t comment on it. I think given the half-life it would make sense to start with ED injections and go from there.

How about this place? Buy Insulin Syringes & Diabetic Needles | Total Diabetes Supply

It seems they ship to NH, if thatā€™s indeed New Hampshire, at least it comes up as an option in the shipping menu. Might be worth a try

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Seems like this isnā€™t talked about enough - what are you taking in this category now? Still some preg?

Tried placing an order. Sometimes places will accept the order but then cancel so we shall see. Thank you, man!

Do you think I should start with just switching from Cyp-Prop, or would adding preg make sense too? Iā€™m thinking the former, but consider the latter (fewer variables is generally better) for down the road.

Were you taking capsules or cream of the preg, brother? Have you taken any progesterone? I currently take 50 mg DHEA ED but never tried preg or prog.

Took my first shot of prop today ā€“ 25 mg. I plan to do 25 mg ED for a total of 175 mg/week. Iā€™m injecting IM, though, because I donā€™t have much body fat and donā€™t want needle holes around my abs :slightly_smiling_face: The glutes are just so easy for me.