Realistic TRT Recomp Progress

Damn, this stuff is expensive. Cycle Support looks like a good one though

Yea nothing in this game is cheap except the gym membership :joy:

Been reading about dose timing for orals and found something interesting that makes sense to me. Most orals have short half lives, so you either are constantly taking them, or you never really get to that steady state. One guy made the point of taking them ore workout on workout days or heavy days… get the benifit of increased strength to help aid in progressive overload, and let the other drugs your on (test) help with the recovery on the off days.

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It seems the half life of anavar is 10-13 hours, so that makes sense. I like the idea of taking it on workout days and the test on the other days; that logic makes sense to me too. I wonder how long it would take for the oxandrolone to ‘kick in,’ so to speak – like, if you’re working out in the afternoon, should you take it first thing in the a.m.? From what I’ve read, I don’t think you’ll really feel it, but I could be wrong.

@readalot What do you think of TUDCA/NAC (and possible dosage) for liver support while on anavar? Did you take any? Contemplating 600 mg NAC and 250 TUDCA.

My ALT/AST are both normal. ALT is a little low (41) but not bad. ALB is slightly above range (5.2). Liver tests for me have generally been their worst when T was highest.

It really isn’t though. Few AAS induce the sheer level of lipid fuckage oxandrolone is capable of. Kidney stress, transient hepatotoxicity also factor in as presenting issues associated with prolonged and cumulative dosing.

And they shouldn’t. The word “longevity” and anything c17-aa don’t belong in the same sentence.

Primobolan is a drug one could feasibly arguably is “safer”/“less toxic” and as a result you find users have to pump higher dosages in order to elicit a desired effect. After which point, is it really less toxic?

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0.5 mg a day of stanozolol for the long term safety win! Probably won’t be very jacked :-<

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Why do you think it has this ‘safe’ reputation, in that case? Because side effects are more salient long term and less visible in the here and now?

So, this is the quagmire I’m in…I don’t want to sacrifice health but do want to improve my T ratio.

Given that SHBG is the perpetual thorn in my side, do you see any other options besides oxandrolone (given that I already tried Danazol)? The ‘flood the system with T’ approach doesn’t seem to be working either, as 238 mg is a hefty dose and SHBG remains mid-70s.

And not very cost-effective, lol…I wonder if I’ll end up trying out a very low dose for the long term. I have a feeling 50 mg EOD will feel good but induce too much damage for my liking. I know even 2.5 had bad effects for you.

7.5 mg/day or 50 mg/day of oxandrolone had similar effect on my HDL and more specifically my lipoprotein particle counts. As long as you are comfortable seeing that type of hit (even short term) then you can go ahead and try it of course. I thought I would be comfortable seeing that but clearly I wasn’t. But now I am evaluating 12.5-25 mg/day of stanozolol as a trial for a number of reasons. We are human beings, easily fooled by ourselves, and sometimes irrational :joy:.

All right T-Nation, let’s start that petition so that the health conscious, high SHBG “fitness” enthusiasts that value their health have access to a righteous pharmacy option for legal Primo use here in the USA. Disclaimer: not sure Primo will really lower SHBG that much (especially compared with 17-AA).

We won’t stop until 503B pharmacies allow us to experiment safely! Let’s light up those Congressional phones. It’s disgusting I can get Rx oxandrolone, stanozolol, nandrolone but not Rx Primo in this freedom loving country!!

Who’s with me?

@Professor_Hulk @wsmwannabe @iron_yuppie @blshaw @studhammer @unreal24278 @highpull

Pass it on. Who’s writing the petition so @bkb333 can “optimize” safely?

@yeti308, how can you help? Jay Campbell, are you on here? @Chris_Colucci , can you call Romano and the T-Nation Execs and get them on this? Where’s Danny to do the marketing when you need him! Danny, where are you? I can’t believe I am saying this. I see a documentary coming.

EDIT: only 10 users allowed to be mentioned in one post. Pass it on. Where’s Scott Howell? Scott, are you around? @yeti308, call Scott!

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@swoops39 / @mnben87 / @lordgains / @ncsugrad2002 / @dptfit See above.

Put those sizable intellects and persistence to work and get our American friends safe access to reasonable reward/risk AAS. Only then will be be able to truly call AA Clinics anti-aging instead of accelerated aging clinics.

Thomas O’Connor, what’s your handle on here?

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I still don’t understand how clinics can ‘get away’ with RXing these. I’ve never tried Primo but I’m about to give it a go. Like @unreal24278 mentioned, I’ve heard you need to run it fairly high for results so I’m not sure how negatively impactful it will be in moderate doses.

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Not complaining on the availability of the others, just the lack of legal, safe access to Primo which on paper looks like a potentially much better alternative. Why should we all be slaves to historical precedent? It’s 2021. Rise up and embrace your anabolic potential safely (or safer ?)!

I think I’ll start a new thread for this…POP_NOW (Primobolan Optimization Petition_NOW). @iron_yuppie, do you recommend adding Trestolone to the petition since we’re all going infertile anyway?

Remember, meaningful change only happens when we band together the intelligent, discriminating iron warriors together to Effect it.

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Primo has been by far my favorite even for a few weeks before it accelerated hair loss. Not even just gains; mood, everything felt great. You’re making me miss it now… but I’m in. I’ll have to put my political activism toward the feds, I’m in the most restricted, awful State in the world.

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Can you elaborate on the specifics of why it looks better? Obviously is better than anything c17-aa but for injectables not sure how its better than Nandrolone or how about a more comparable DHT such as Masteron.

Nothing that hasn’t been glossed over on here before. More tongue and check and in comparison to 17-AA that have historical precedent and presence in FDA orange book (hence the option from US pharmacies). Re: Primo: Low affinity for SHBG and you’ll need a bunch to get the gainz like @unreal24278 mentioned. Lots of anecdotal praise but as was said may be hard on hair and probably folklore since they gave to women for a time hence the “soft” profile.

You raise a fantastic point, dromostanolone aka drostanolone aka Drolban (Masteron) is in the FDA orange book so you could talk your provider/compounding pharmacy into rx’ing that before they would consider Primo since it isn’t listed.

Also Maxibolin in there. I find it funny that these aren’t available from AA clinics (Masteron/Maxibolin) but oxandrolone/stanozolol/ND are. Again would probably be smarter to Rx NPP rather than ND so you could bail quicker if needed. NPP in the orange book as well.

TRT/hormone experimentation exposes this in all of us

This does seem like a strange double standard to me

What dose were you taking? Did you do bloods to see effects or just going off SWB?