T Nation

Real fight?


#1

Martial artists get "real fight" experience @ 5:05

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand I intended that as a reply in the other thread. FML.


#2

Marines still learn fighting techniques....whats your point? That a knife was pulled and they both got owned?


#3

Saw this happen outside a pub yesterday.


#4

I was going to say, this is pretty good as far as real fights. There's little balance, skill kinda goes out the window... both of these guys are trained fighters but neither particularly look like it here.

It's a melee in the real world.


#5

The bigger of the TV personalities (sorry, forgot their names) had maybe 4 in and 35 lbs on his opponent, and thought grabbing his opponent in a clinch was a good idea. Right up until that leg sweep that allowed the smaller man to get to his knife and put it in his ribs. Oh, and the Marine controlled his head the whole time, so even if he didn't have a knife that was about to get unpleasant.

The smaller TV guy got put on the ground by an aggressive attack, but instead of popping back up ASAP like we're trained to do he stayed flat on his back and waited. If you look carefully, the instructor even backs up two steps before dropping in with the knife, giving him one last chance to realize and correct his mistake. Proving once again that if you're going to lay flat on your back, you're going to get treated like someone who does that for a living.

Both of them charged up a hill into prepared enemies without knowing if there were additional men over the berm they were attacking. They also let themselves be split apart and taken down one on one instead of trying to offer each other any support. If both had rushed the man on their left, they might have finished him or used him as a shield against the other while working him over. Instead, they treated it like some sort of duel, each of their tired asses facing off against one fresh man.

The competition fighting each had done had to be overcome to make them effective warriors in a "real fight." While each knew some technique that helped, and could probably out-grapple most of the black belt students there and even a few instructors when fresh, each also had bad habits that hobbled them when the rules went away.

Real Marine students at MACE run the hard side of that course at full speed, not the female side at a slow jog. They probably aren't in much better shape than these two, but the difference is they've trained tired during every MCMAP session of their career. They learned gross muscle movements while utterly exhausted, so that their technique is still effective even when hurt and tired. They might fall for that knife trick the first time too, but they would be much more likely to be working together, staying on their feet, and fighting dirty and therefore would have a better chance of surviving it.


#6

Yes, they had clearly not trained for realistic infantry types of situations or even real fighting types of situations. There are most certainly bad habits that people can get into by becoming too comfortable within sporting rules sets.

In their defense though, there aren't too many schools/instructors out there who teach skill sets (like boxing, wrestling, BJJ) at a very high level who also truly understand and teach the differences between sport combat and real combat. Many times the students must come to these realizations on their own (either through experiences like in the video, real fights they've been in, etc...) or be lucky enough/smart enough to find someone who does understand the differences.

Like you said though, they probably would have whooped on most if not all of those Marines inside an MMA cage/ring. It's a matter of specificity of training, not that they are necessarily learning different skills (for instance both learn how to effectively strike, takedowns, submissions/breaks, and defenses to all of the above), even though there is some of that too (the Marines train to use weapons for example which MMA fighters do not).