Reagan and Reality

Without a doubt Ronald Reagan was the single best President of the modern era. From upping the economy by 20 million new jobs to helping dismantle the Soviet Empire, to raising everyone’s hopes for a better tomorrow (after Jimmy Carter’s 4 disastrous years) The Gipper was THE man! Anyone who says otherwise either didn’t live through his Presidency and to witness his greatness, or is so partisan that the truth escapes them.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Ronald Reagan was the worst President America has known all the old Steel towns that are now vast fields of Welfare Recipients can all be lain at the feet of Ronald Reagan, Hundreds if not thousands of thriving companies , Thousands of towns and cities hundreds of thousands of high paying jobs , gone thanks to Ronnie[/quote]

Which begs the question, why don’t we just ban all imports? That would make all industry better and America better. Then we just hand out government money to any company that isn’t making it, that way no business ever fails.

I’m telling you guys, it’s foolproof.[/quote]

No need to ban anything just make sure that all the same players have the same human rights record and the same record on the ecology of the industry, I am running out of battery :slight_smile:
[/quote]

No one has the same record. The Japanese don’t have the same idea of humans rights we do, so ban Honda?

There are a lot of things more important that humans rights issues that cause the discrepancies in cost of business.
[/quote]

My point is that Reagan wanted American Steel to compete with third world countries that paid pennies a day if they did not get away with not paying their workers at all , Reagan’s concept was that you flood the market with cheap goods and every one can buy more , that is good until no one has money to buy the cheap goods .

[/quote]

Seeing as the economy has done great and there is no higher level of consumer-ship in the world, please explain how that isn’t what happened?[/quote]

I disagree that the economy is doing good , we have no where near the manufacturing base we had before Reagan , He was the Unions worts enemy he cut off our nose to spite our face , he threw the baby out with the bath water , he fucked America in the ass
[/quote]

LOL. The problem with a liberal is that they equate not doing something you don’t have the right to do with proctively doing something bad.

The union is the union’s worst enemy. Not taking people’s money by force to prop up an inefficient industry isn’t “fucking america in the ass”. [/quote]

I personally think Unions are evil, but a necessary evil . Corporations will screw employees as well as any one else for profit, that is why we need another evil (CONSUMER PROTECTION)

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]Ratchet wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Ronald Reagan was the worst President America has known [/quote]

While I didnt care for Reagan and he is overblown… Obama is by far the worst president american has ever known. In his 1 term he will increase the debit more then all the persidents (including bush) combined. nuff said…[/quote]

Notice how this was totally ignored.[/quote]

You will have to point out the devastation that Obama’s policies created

some people believe anything , Reagan screwed American steel cost Hundreds if not thousands of profitable , tax paying companies to go out of business ,Thousands of towns and cities lose their tax base because all of their high paying jobs went to third world countries and all those employees are now on welfare , that is fucking great for America, go figure

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
some people believe anything , Reagan screwed American steel cost Hundreds if not thousands of profitable , tax paying companies to go out of business ,Thousands of towns and cities lose their tax base because all of their high paying jobs went to third world countries and all those employees are now on welfare , that is fucking great for America, go figure [/quote]

You always mention all of these lost jobs (which wouldn’t have been lost if those companies were run more efficiently), however, you refuse to see that unemployment was 7.5% when Reagan took office and America was in one of the worst recessions ever. By the time Reagan left office unemployment was down to 5.3% and the economy was in great shape.

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
some people believe anything , Reagan screwed American steel cost Hundreds if not thousands of profitable , tax paying companies to go out of business ,Thousands of towns and cities lose their tax base because all of their high paying jobs went to third world countries and all those employees are now on welfare , that is fucking great for America, go figure [/quote]

You always mention all of these lost jobs (which wouldn’t have been lost if those companies were run more efficiently), however, you refuse to see that unemployment was 7.5% when Reagan took office and America was in one of the worst recessions ever. By the time Reagan left office unemployment was down to 5.3% and the economy was in great shape. [/quote]
Yeah, but what you dont see is that he fucked the steel industry which is vastly more important than any above stated “facts”, if you can call them that. Besides, if they were run more efficiently they would of been able to get more done with less people and the jobs would be lost anyways and that’s never good.

[quote]Scrotus wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
some people believe anything , Reagan screwed American steel cost Hundreds if not thousands of profitable , tax paying companies to go out of business ,Thousands of towns and cities lose their tax base because all of their high paying jobs went to third world countries and all those employees are now on welfare , that is fucking great for America, go figure [/quote]

You always mention all of these lost jobs (which wouldn’t have been lost if those companies were run more efficiently), however, you refuse to see that unemployment was 7.5% when Reagan took office and America was in one of the worst recessions ever. By the time Reagan left office unemployment was down to 5.3% and the economy was in great shape. [/quote]
Yeah, but what you dont see is that he fucked the steel industry which is vastly more important than any above stated “facts”, if you can call them that. Besides, if they were run more efficiently they would of been able to get more done with less people and the jobs would be lost anyways and that’s never good.[/quote]

Employment is worthless if you’re not employed productively.
Everyone in the soviet union had a job.
They had shortages of basic goods CONSTANTLY.
To that same effect half the country could be employed digging ditches and the other half filling them up and everyone would be employed doing NOTHING profitable(read: demanded by the needs of the people).

Just watched a three part, very thorough and even-handed PBS documentary about the man. Intriguing.

Convincing argument that the welfare state had become bloated and needed to be cut. However, if the ultimate goal was to reduce the size of federal spending, he failed. He financed Star Wars Missile Defense (hows that going?) and other defense spending on the backs of the poor while tripling the national debt.

Any bias present is my own and not that of PBS or the CPB.

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Ronald Reagan was the worst President America has known all the old Steel towns that are now vast fields of Welfare Recipients can all be lain at the feet of Ronald Reagan, Hundreds if not thousands of thriving companies , Thousands of towns and cities hundreds of thousands of high paying jobs , gone thanks to Ronnie[/quote]

Which begs the question, why don’t we just ban all imports? That would make all industry better and America better. Then we just hand out government money to any company that isn’t making it, that way no business ever fails.

I’m telling you guys, it’s foolproof.[/quote]

No need to ban anything just make sure that all the same players have the same human rights record and the same record on the ecology of the industry, I am running out of battery :slight_smile:
[/quote]

Yeah…

Anything else we should emulate?

Drug laws, sexual harassment seminars, summary execution of smokers?

Just asking.

No really, if you shoot yourselves in the foot, we should of course do the same, its only fair after all.

[/quote]

there is a thing called reason or reasonable . We are a civilized society,we treat people in a way that allows them to live a good life , I believe the social programs in America , for the better part are good.

China is a good example or at least ther WERE a good example . Treated the people like shit , killed or imprisoned the dissenters . WE were competing with countries that were what America should never want to be . No free market , fascist, communist, supporting all the things I hear the so called right screaming about
[/quote]

“Reasonable standards” set by whom?

The same people who should decide which jobs exist at the expense of others?

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Ronald Reagan was the worst President America has known all the old Steel towns that are now vast fields of Welfare Recipients can all be lain at the feet of Ronald Reagan, Hundreds if not thousands of thriving companies , Thousands of towns and cities hundreds of thousands of high paying jobs , gone thanks to Ronnie[/quote]

Which begs the question, why don’t we just ban all imports? That would make all industry better and America better. Then we just hand out government money to any company that isn’t making it, that way no business ever fails.

I’m telling you guys, it’s foolproof.[/quote]

No need to ban anything just make sure that all the same players have the same human rights record and the same record on the ecology of the industry, I am running out of battery :slight_smile:
[/quote]

No one has the same record. The Japanese don’t have the same idea of humans rights we do, so ban Honda?

There are a lot of things more important that humans rights issues that cause the discrepancies in cost of business.
[/quote]

My point is that Reagan wanted American Steel to compete with third world countries that paid pennies a day if they did not get away with not paying their workers at all , Reagan’s concept was that you flood the market with cheap goods and every one can buy more , that is good until no one has money to buy the cheap goods .

[/quote]

Seeing as the economy has done great and there is no higher level of consumer-ship in the world, please explain how that isn’t what happened?[/quote]

I disagree that the economy is doing good , we have no where near the manufacturing base we had before Reagan , He was the Unions worts enemy he cut off our nose to spite our face , he threw the baby out with the bath water , he fucked America in the ass
[/quote]

LOL. The problem with a liberal is that they equate not doing something you don’t have the right to do with proctively doing something bad.

The union is the union’s worst enemy. Not taking people’s money by force to prop up an inefficient industry isn’t “fucking america in the ass”. [/quote]

I personally think Unions are evil, but a necessary evil . Corporations will screw employees as well as any one else for profit, that is why we need another evil (CONSUMER PROTECTION)
[/quote]

Unions are corporations.

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]apbt55 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Ronald Reagan was the worst President America has known all the old Steel towns that are now vast fields of Welfare Recipients can all be lain at the feet of Ronald Reagan, Hundreds if not thousands of thriving companies , Thousands of towns and cities hundreds of thousands of high paying jobs , gone thanks to Ronnie[/quote]

Which begs the question, why don’t we just ban all imports? That would make all industry better and America better. Then we just hand out government money to any company that isn’t making it, that way no business ever fails.

I’m telling you guys, it’s foolproof.[/quote]

No need to ban anything just make sure that all the same players have the same human rights record and the same record on the ecology of the industry, I am running out of battery :slight_smile:
[/quote]

I see GLOBAL Governance. Are you ready for that and what it really means? Not the touchy feely version, but what it really means. It means the entire world run by a group of elites, the rest of us at a 2nd world country level, we have to make the difference up.

[/quote]

I agree to a degree, they control wealth and if the people are smart that is all, but I also agree people do not always do what is best for them
[/quote]

Yes, but that is freedom, the ability to make your own choices, and in such assume the responsibility of those choices. Freedom is not shouldering the burden of someone else’ choices because you are forced to by a ruling body.

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
some people believe anything , Reagan screwed American steel cost Hundreds if not thousands of profitable , tax paying companies to go out of business ,Thousands of towns and cities lose their tax base because all of their high paying jobs went to third world countries and all those employees are now on welfare , that is fucking great for America, go figure [/quote]

You always mention all of these lost jobs (which wouldn’t have been lost if those companies were run more efficiently), however, you refuse to see that unemployment was 7.5% when Reagan took office and America was in one of the worst recessions ever. By the time Reagan left office unemployment was down to 5.3% and the economy was in great shape. [/quote]

You have to go to an area like Flint Mich. or Youngstown OH. to see 1rst hand of the waste that Reagan created. Like all industry Steel was standing in line for change , but the change Reagan created was not good for Steel and was not good for America . I know a lot of people are anti union and I understand their reasoning , but since the union died the disparity between the have and the have nots have grown beyond the wildest imagination.

Reagans supply side economics worked for a while because everybody like cheap stuff, but then after all the jobs went to the counties that make the cheap stuff , no one can afford the cheap stuff.

Supply side economics is only half the picture

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Ronald Reagan was the worst President America has known all the old Steel towns that are now vast fields of Welfare Recipients can all be lain at the feet of Ronald Reagan, Hundreds if not thousands of thriving companies , Thousands of towns and cities hundreds of thousands of high paying jobs , gone thanks to Ronnie[/quote]

Which begs the question, why don’t we just ban all imports? That would make all industry better and America better. Then we just hand out government money to any company that isn’t making it, that way no business ever fails.

I’m telling you guys, it’s foolproof.[/quote]

No need to ban anything just make sure that all the same players have the same human rights record and the same record on the ecology of the industry, I am running out of battery :slight_smile:
[/quote]

Yeah…

Anything else we should emulate?

Drug laws, sexual harassment seminars, summary execution of smokers?

Just asking.

No really, if you shoot yourselves in the foot, we should of course do the same, its only fair after all.

[/quote]

there is a thing called reason or reasonable . We are a civilized society,we treat people in a way that allows them to live a good life , I believe the social programs in America , for the better part are good.

China is a good example or at least ther WERE a good example . Treated the people like shit , killed or imprisoned the dissenters . WE were competing with countries that were what America should never want to be . No free market , fascist, communist, supporting all the things I hear the so called right screaming about
[/quote]

“Reasonable standards” set by whom?

The same people who should decide which jobs exist at the expense of others?

[/quote]

how do I answer your question with a question, Reasonable is a subjective goal , I guess that any one that has the ability would be a dictator . BUt in America it would have to be a consensus of at least our elected officials

[quote]apbt55 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]apbt55 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Ronald Reagan was the worst President America has known all the old Steel towns that are now vast fields of Welfare Recipients can all be lain at the feet of Ronald Reagan, Hundreds if not thousands of thriving companies , Thousands of towns and cities hundreds of thousands of high paying jobs , gone thanks to Ronnie[/quote]

Which begs the question, why don’t we just ban all imports? That would make all industry better and America better. Then we just hand out government money to any company that isn’t making it, that way no business ever fails.

I’m telling you guys, it’s foolproof.[/quote]

No need to ban anything just make sure that all the same players have the same human rights record and the same record on the ecology of the industry, I am running out of battery :slight_smile:
[/quote]

I see GLOBAL Governance. Are you ready for that and what it really means? Not the touchy feely version, but what it really means. It means the entire world run by a group of elites, the rest of us at a 2nd world country level, we have to make the difference up.

[/quote]

I agree to a degree, they control wealth and if the people are smart that is all, but I also agree people do not always do what is best for them
[/quote]

Yes, but that is freedom, the ability to make your own choices, and in such assume the responsibility of those choices. Freedom is not shouldering the burden of someone else’ choices because you are forced to by a ruling body.

[/quote]

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Ronald Reagan was the worst President America has known all the old Steel towns that are now vast fields of Welfare Recipients can all be lain at the feet of Ronald Reagan, Hundreds if not thousands of thriving companies , Thousands of towns and cities hundreds of thousands of high paying jobs , gone thanks to Ronnie[/quote]

Which begs the question, why don’t we just ban all imports? That would make all industry better and America better. Then we just hand out government money to any company that isn’t making it, that way no business ever fails.

I’m telling you guys, it’s foolproof.[/quote]

No need to ban anything just make sure that all the same players have the same human rights record and the same record on the ecology of the industry, I am running out of battery :slight_smile:
[/quote]

Yeah…

Anything else we should emulate?

Drug laws, sexual harassment seminars, summary execution of smokers?

Just asking.

No really, if you shoot yourselves in the foot, we should of course do the same, its only fair after all.

[/quote]

there is a thing called reason or reasonable . We are a civilized society,we treat people in a way that allows them to live a good life , I believe the social programs in America , for the better part are good.

China is a good example or at least ther WERE a good example . Treated the people like shit , killed or imprisoned the dissenters . WE were competing with countries that were what America should never want to be . No free market , fascist, communist, supporting all the things I hear the so called right screaming about
[/quote]

“Reasonable standards” set by whom?

The same people who should decide which jobs exist at the expense of others?

[/quote]

how do I answer your question with a question, Reasonable is a subjective goal , I guess that any one that has the ability would be a dictator . BUt in America it would have to be a consensus of at least our elected officials
[/quote]

The very same whose glorious vision has led you to the debacle you are in right now?

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Ronald Reagan was the worst President America has known all the old Steel towns that are now vast fields of Welfare Recipients can all be lain at the feet of Ronald Reagan, Hundreds if not thousands of thriving companies , Thousands of towns and cities hundreds of thousands of high paying jobs , gone thanks to Ronnie[/quote]

Which begs the question, why don’t we just ban all imports? That would make all industry better and America better. Then we just hand out government money to any company that isn’t making it, that way no business ever fails.

I’m telling you guys, it’s foolproof.[/quote]

No need to ban anything just make sure that all the same players have the same human rights record and the same record on the ecology of the industry, I am running out of battery :slight_smile:
[/quote]

Yeah…

Anything else we should emulate?

Drug laws, sexual harassment seminars, summary execution of smokers?

Just asking.

No really, if you shoot yourselves in the foot, we should of course do the same, its only fair after all.

[/quote]

there is a thing called reason or reasonable . We are a civilized society,we treat people in a way that allows them to live a good life , I believe the social programs in America , for the better part are good.

China is a good example or at least ther WERE a good example . Treated the people like shit , killed or imprisoned the dissenters . WE were competing with countries that were what America should never want to be . No free market , fascist, communist, supporting all the things I hear the so called right screaming about
[/quote]

“Reasonable standards” set by whom?

The same people who should decide which jobs exist at the expense of others?

[/quote]

how do I answer your question with a question, Reasonable is a subjective goal , I guess that any one that has the ability would be a dictator . BUt in America it would have to be a consensus of at least our elected officials
[/quote]

The very same whose glorious vision has led you to the debacle you are in right now?
[/quote]

NO , a whole new group with GLORIOUS VISION:)

Didn’t Reagen have Alzheimer’s for the last three years of his rule?

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Ronald Reagan was the worst President America has known all the old Steel towns that are now vast fields of Welfare Recipients can all be lain at the feet of Ronald Reagan, Hundreds if not thousands of thriving companies , Thousands of towns and cities hundreds of thousands of high paying jobs , gone thanks to Ronnie[/quote]

Which begs the question, why don’t we just ban all imports? That would make all industry better and America better. Then we just hand out government money to any company that isn’t making it, that way no business ever fails.

I’m telling you guys, it’s foolproof.[/quote]

No need to ban anything just make sure that all the same players have the same human rights record and the same record on the ecology of the industry, I am running out of battery :slight_smile:
[/quote]

No one has the same record. The Japanese don’t have the same idea of humans rights we do, so ban Honda?

There are a lot of things more important that humans rights issues that cause the discrepancies in cost of business.
[/quote]

My point is that Reagan wanted American Steel to compete with third world countries that paid pennies a day if they did not get away with not paying their workers at all , Reagan’s concept was that you flood the market with cheap goods and every one can buy more , that is good until no one has money to buy the cheap goods .

[/quote]

Seeing as the economy has done great and there is no higher level of consumer-ship in the world, please explain how that isn’t what happened?[/quote]

I disagree that the economy is doing good , we have no where near the manufacturing base we had before Reagan , He was the Unions worts enemy he cut off our nose to spite our face , he threw the baby out with the bath water , he fucked America in the ass
[/quote]

LOL. The problem with a liberal is that they equate not doing something you don’t have the right to do with proctively doing something bad.

The union is the union’s worst enemy. Not taking people’s money by force to prop up an inefficient industry isn’t “fucking america in the ass”. [/quote]

I personally think Unions are evil, but a necessary evil . Corporations will screw employees as well as any one else for profit, that is why we need another evil (CONSUMER PROTECTION)
[/quote]

Unions are corporations. [/quote]

True , they were also organized crime

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

Unions are corporations. [/quote]

True , they were also organized crime[/quote]

Not to mention, they are also generally monopolies. It’s like the worst of all worlds, but you still think they are good?

[quote]Bambi wrote:
Didn’t Reagen have Alzheimer’s for the last three years of his rule?

[/quote]
The impression that I got was that he started really slipping after the Iran/contra scandal. Whenever that was in the midst of his second term.