T Nation

Ready, Set, Grow!

I just finished day one of the Growth Surge Project, I have all my supplies and the Mag 10 is reserved. I am patiently awaiting it’s arrival. Just wondering who else is in on this and how we’re all doing with it, even though we’re in the easy stage. ~Trance~

Hey, I’m giving it a try too. I think the first stage is the hardest because the volume is so low. I find it harder to sit on my ass during the week when I’m so used to my regular 5 day split. It’s probably going to be a good program, but just like anything, will need to be personalized once someone trys it. Good luck, Jay

Jay, I think you may be regreting those words when the second phase comes into play. I do know what you mean about the feel like your sitting on your ass bit, but I think I’m going to miss that in two weeks as the volume becomes insane and I’m about to vomit on the squat rack. ~Trance~

I am ready too and have started Phase I of the program. Have been stocking up on other supplements also especially if I am going to be eating 1000 calories above maintenance.
During the Mag10 phase, I am going to set my alarm clock for about 2:30AM and drink a high protein shake with some flax oil. This way I can continue to feed my muscles while I sleep.

Has anyone else here ever tried these mid-night feedings? I tried it while I on Androsol and got excellent results. Gained 12 lbs of which 9 lbs was LBM. That was confirmed by my trainer with Skyndex(sp??) measurements.

It will be interesting to hear about what kind of results we get… I am definitely going to take some before and after pics.

Stay strong!

Body2kill4, yeah I’ve used the midnight feeding before and liked the results. I do it out of necessity though, when eating 1000 calories over because I eat clean, even when bulking, so the amount of food I have to consume is impossible to fit into six meals. Good Luck, Jay

Jay- In a way, this is what we meant by the program being mentally tough. It’s tough to lower your volume, avoid failure, and train less, but that’s part of what’s going to make this a successful program. You have to be tough enough and disciplined enough to hold back during Phase I. Then you can use all that pent up energy for Phase II, where you’ll really need it.

Hey Chris- I got a quick question for you, but I’m going to blow a little sunshine up everyone at T-Mag and Biotest’s asses first! I must admit, I was pretty hesitant to dish out $200 for three cycles of Mag-10 on my college student budget. With all the student loans staring me down, I just wasn’t sure that I could bring myself to make the purchase unless I knew that I would see results…big time. However, when I saw that you guys were really going the extra mile to not only offer diet advice in conjunction with the Mag-10, but also outlining a specific training program to accompany it, I hauled ass to the bank to put the cash in my checking account so that I could get a few cycles with my debit card ASAP! I’m happy to say that I placed my order this morning. With all the hype and false-claims made in the industry today, you guys really impressed me with your willingness to go beyond the sale, and, perhaps more importantly, back up your promises with a money-back guarantee. Anyway, give yourself a pat on the back, and get ready for a few of my questions.

I just came off of a cutting cycle, and have been on a low intensity program of 12-15 rep sets just to get back in the flow of things before I really start to bulk. I had anticipated using this for a week, then going to a 6-12 hypertrophy oriented period for 4 weeks, and then to 3-6 reps for another two. I’m going nuts with this high rep crap because during my cutting phase, I really missed pushing heavier weights. Luckily, I’m due to finish this stage on Friday. My question is, would I be okay just picking up the Growth Stage Project in Stage 2, since I’ve already been at a lower intensity for a bit. Also, I just started on my first four week cycle of Tribex. Should I just discontinue it when my Mag-10 arrives, or wait to start Mag-10 until after the Tribex cycle ends as it was originally supposed to? Finally, the easiest question: due to my class schedule, some days I work out in the mornings and some days I work out in the afternoons. Should I just pick a time each day to take Mag-10, or always take it before my workout? Thanks for your help, and keep up the good work! -Eric

Eric- If your volume has been low and you’ve been on a sub-maintenance diet for a while, then it’s probably okay to jump right into Stage II, just read Stage I and make sure it’s very close to what you’ve been doing. If not, then I’d suggest starting in Stage I just to be safe. Or you could split the difference and do one week of Stage I instead of two. It’s just very important that you enter Stage II really fresh and not overtrained in the least bit.

I’d save the Tribex until after MAG-10. Although it wouldn’t hurt, I always suggest Tribex for between Androsol (and now MAG-10) cycles for best results, plus it stretches the supplement dollar a bit.

As for your timing question, I can’t recall right now what Bill Roberts has said about this. I don’t think it’s necessary to take it right before training. Maybe Bill will chime in. If not, post a new thread on this topic so he’ll see it. Hope that helps.

Just wondering if you could post a complete list of all the supps that we’re going to need for the whole program here. I have to order my stuff in advance, as I live outside the US, and I’d like to be able to have everything on hand in time. Aside from the supps listed for Phase I and some sort of steroid/pro-hormone for Phase II, what else are we gonna need?

And I’d just like to echo the thanks given above. This program is the kind of thing that keeps me coming back to T-Mag again and again.

Due to my line of work its imposible for me to give the Project a “test drive”, but Ill make due with a “normal” mass phase for Mag 10.

I always have to wake up half way through the night to take a leak, so about a year ago I started slamming down a protein drink at that time and liked the results. Its so easy to do that I just cant understand why some people refuse to do it. Its one of the easiest ways to become “dangerously hardcore”.

Trance- You wouldnt hapen to have named yourself after the style of music would you?

The only concern that I have is that I’ve increased the calories since I finished cutting, so I don’t know if I’ll be totally primed as if I had just finished a hypocaloric diet with frequent cardio sessions. I think I might have upped the carbs a little too quickly, as I’m holding onto more water than I’d like all of a sudden. Overtraining won’t be a problem, as I have more energy than I know what to do with. I was ready to rip the doors down at my gym in the days leading up to my return to training after a short break. I definitely felt strong in my workout this AM, but I had to resist the urge to move further up the DB rack in order to stay in the 12-15 range. When all was said and done, I had gotten a good delts/triceps workout and threw in some calf work at the end. Overall, the pumps were pretty good from the higher reps (I’ve heard that Tribex has that effect on some people). Nonetheless, I’m confident that I’ll be ready for stage 2 even if I do a week or so of hypertrophy in between. Thanks for the info.

I was also thinking of starting stage 1. However, will MAG 10 be available in two weeks. I don’t want to start phase 1 and then sit on my hands waiting for MAG 10 so I am able to start Phase 2.

Soldier, I absolutley love trance beats, however my name has to do more with my studying and damn near obsession with hypnosis. The fact that trance has to be a genre of music that I love only happens to be a pleasant bonus. And on the subject of nutrition, have you really seen a notable difference in results with wakin’ up and chuggin down a shake in the middle of the night??? Take it easy, but take it.~Trance~

Cyman…you read my mind!! i read the growth surge article and was thinking the same thing!! i don’t think i am going to start this program until i hear of the date that MAG-10 will begin being shipped out! any of the T-staff want to comment on this???

chardawg - check out a post entitle “Growth Surge question for Chris Shugart”. In that thread he hits on the supps for each phase.

Char- As far as Biotest stuff goes, we suggest Surge or a similar post-workout drink in every stage. If money is an issue and you can’t afford much, then I’d use it for Stage II for sure.

Stage II you’ll definitely need some anabolic support, Androsol or MAG-10, your choice.

Stage III calls for Tribex and Methoxy-7. We may suggest “M” if it’s out by that time or some plain vitex, but we’re still hashing out the details of Stage III.

Other than that, you can use plain creatine throughout, plus fish/flax oil, and a multi. ZMA is fine too. I never cycle off the stuff myself, although we don’t call for it in the articles.

I was told when we posted Stage I that MAG-10 would be ready to go for Stage II for those that start the program immediately. If something goes wrong and you don’t have MAG-10 by the time you’re ready to start Stage II, then I’d suggest staying on Stage I until it becomes available. Hopefully, that won’t happen though. Whether you get MAG-10 in time may also have something to do with whether you pre-ordered or not.

Hope all that helps.

I was just thinking that it might be a good idea to stick witht the periodization program that I had designed in the first place. I might even hold onto the Mag-10 and use it later, or just incorporate it as it arrives. I’m definitely ready for some higher intensities now. Do you think that I could achieve comparable results if my Mag-10 cycle begins a few weeks after my priming stage instead of right after? Who knows- Stage II might even fit the bill for my plans anyway, and I could just incorporate it into the program. I had designed the next four weeks after a five days a week split poliquin put forth in an issue of MD for some guy who needed a split that would guarantee he would always be training on the same days. Basically, you only train each bodypart once a week, and give it hell (up to 20 or so sets per workout, including ancillaries). Each session starts with a heavy core movement ( no more than 6 reps of squats, deadlifts, presses, chins, dips for 5 sets) before moving into supersets of other multijoint and isolation movements with more reps. out of curiosity, do you think I’d be better off with Stage II or sticking with my plans (with or without Mag-10). Thanks for all the help- you guys are the best. By the way, if any of the T-mag or Biotest staff are ever in Southern Maine, look me up- I’ll get you guys all the lobsters you can eat in exchange for all the free advice!

Chris, the possibilities on the 6 week program you are laying out seem exciting. The question or concern for me is fat gain. I realize that some is inevitable (none would be awsome) With the use of MAG-10, is it possible that even though we are overfeeding, we can keep our gains more toward that of muscle. I have too easy a time gaining fat mass and the older I get, the easier it seems I get fat (and it also seems harder to lose it). I have heard somewhere that increased testosterone may contribute to reduction in fat. Can it also prevent fat gain during our stage II? And will any of the other stages focus on fat loss?
Thanks

saccob- We address this is Stage II. Basic answers:

1) You may gain a little fat, but we take care of that in Stage III. You could also go back to Stage I after Stage III and trim the fat, if any.

2) Twice-per-day training, if you choose that option, takes up a buttload of calories so you’ll be able to eat more than you think you can.

3) John’s meal combining ideas (Massive Eating, Don’t Diet etc) allow a person to eat over their previous maintenance levels without gaining fat. As John writes in Stage II: “With Massive Eating, many who thought they had a slug’s metabolism have been able to significantly increase caloric intake and create a new caloric balance point. We’re definitely on to something extraordinary here.” For those that counter with “a calorie is a calorie!” then I counter with “You are wrong.” (And if they want to know why they are wrong, they can read where John addressed this issue in a past “Appetite for Construction” column.) I probably wouldn’t have believed this myself if I hadn’t experienced it, but for some reason using the meal combinations of this program you will not gain fat like you would eating the same amount of calories but mixing fats and carbs. For all the naysayers, I advise them to try it before they bash it. (But they never do that, do they?)

4) Being on androgens just makes the food “go where it’s supposed to” as another forum member said it. Androgens, for whatever reason, put the calories to work.

So, don’t worry about fat gain. Those who do are often the ones who look the same year after year despite going to the gym every day. You may gain a little, but it won’t be much and you can whip it off after Stage II.

Eric- That’s really tough to answer with any certainty. There are just too many variables. Do what you think is best.