T Nation

Ready for the Journey?

Thinking about starting my first cycle in a week or two. For first cycle I’m set on test e with arimidex either in hand for sides or taking it throughout the cycle to prevent gyno and bloating. Ive stayed at a fairly constant weight and strength for the last two years. Max bench 275, Deadlift 405, Clean 235, and squat around 325 if i remember correctly. (haven’t tested squat consistently)

Stats:
Age-21 (recently)
Height-6’3
Weight-195lbs
Experience-Lifting consistently since 16 years old with short periods off due to injury/work.
BF%-10-12% max

Plan:
W 1-10 Test Enth 250mg E3D
W 1-12 Adex 0.25mg EOD (reduce to 0.125mg EOD in last week) OR keep off until sides are seen.
2 weeks after last pin start pct
W 12-16 Clomid 50/50/50/50

Any thoughts on taking nolva with the clomid (40/40/20/20) or is that unneeded? Also I want to use adex during my cycle to cut down on bloating, or is the water retention really necessary for better gains in mass and strength?

Also, how worried should I be about this shutting down my natural test production permanently? anything else I can add to my cycle to further reduce this risk?(not worried about cost) I have access to hcg, femara, adex, nolva, and clomid, although majority seems to say hcg isn’t needed with this short of a cycle comparatively to >3 month long cycles

ANY other advice would be greatly appreciated thanks!

Personally if I could go back I would run

Week 1-4
Test E or C 750mg
Anadrol 100mg daily or 50mg of Dbol daily

Week 5-12
Test E 750mg

PCT 2 weeks after last pin
Nolva 40/40/20/20

AI and extra Nolva on hand but personally wouldn’t tun it unless have symptoms of high Estro. This is up to you but I hate AIs and unless I run into a problem one day that can’t be solved other wise I won’t run them.

As for being permanently shut down no one can answer that varies dramatically from one person to person but statistically speaken you will recover but, most likely not to 100% of what you are now. But as said that varies. How ever with that being said I did my first cycle at 16 piss poorly thought out and didn’t know anything just listened to bigger idiots on the foot ball team. I have had problems ever sense and was officially put on TRT at 18.

Thanks for actually posting a decent layout

Cycle looks good. I’d run the adex, the goal is to keep estrogen in range, get bloodwork before and during to adjust your dose need be to be around your natural level.

Chances of being shut down permenantly are slim. Recovery is different for everyone. Nolva can be used, I used both when I would pct.

Hcg will help speed recovery, plus maintain testiculer size during cycle. 250iu 2-3x a week starting in week 3 at the latest ending 4-5 days before pct.

I just finished up my first cycle not too long ago, Im also 21 years old. I started cycling for different reasons though; I fucked up my system trying pro hormones a few years ago, and was just tired of feeling like shit. Anyway, being 21, or any age for that matter, you are always taking a risk.

There is no way to tell how your body will react to the hormones, because everyone is different. From personal experience though, I would say that I am very happy that I cycled, I have no regrets. My cycle would up being laid out like this:

1-4 DBol 20-30mg/day
1-15 Test E 500mg/wk (weeks 4-9 or 10 I was doing 750mg/wk)
6-16 HCG 500iu/wk
*I had arimidex on hand, but did not really start using it until around week 5-6 due to stiff joints from high estrogen (0.5mg E3D)

PCT
Nolva 40/40/20/20
Clomid 100/100/50/50/50

I would recommend kick starting your cycle with some DBol. It can be a low dose like what I did, and at that low of a dose you still get the pump and strength in the gym, but without all the side effects. The pump on DBol was amazing.

One of the most important things that you need to get into the habit of doing, especially because you are so young, and this is your first time touching hormones, is getting blood work done. Get blood work done before your cycle to have a baseline of where your levels are at, that way you have levels to compare to when figuring out weather you recovered fully or not. Get blood work done about 6 weeks in, and then get blood work done 2-3 weeks after PCT.

The blood work isnt absolutely necessary after PCT, but if youre not feeling 100 % itd be something worth doing. Definitely get blood work done before and during though, I strongly recommend that. About 6 weeks into my cycle I started having really bad joint stiffness, to the point when I had to wake up several time a night just to move my shoulders. If I had not gotten blood work done, I would not have known that this was due to high estrogen.

Another thing I would recommend doing is the HCG. It may not be necessary, but I attribute my quick and easy recovery to the HCG. I honestly feel better than I did before I cycled, and I think the HCG played a big part in that. If you can get it I would use it, you’ll be glad you did.

I have no regrets about cycling, I recovered fine, and I am planning to start another cycle in august. Just make sure you understand the side effects that come along with using gear. Probably the only side effect that I forgot about was hair loss, and about 10 weeks in I started experiencing that. And it is not fun. Not everyone experiences hair loss though, it all depends on whether or not MPB runs in your family. That was really the only side effect I experienced though. I had no gyno issues or anything like that.

I gained about 25 lbs on my cycle. The water weight made my face fat as fuck. I wouldnt start taking your Adex too early unless you decide to do the dbol, you dont want to crash your estrogen levels. You can wait 2-3 weeks.

Im just speaking off of personal experience, I am by no means an expert. Youre going to learn a lot during your first cycle. The only thing I would tell you to seriously consider is the HCG. It will make such a difference with recovery. Good luck

Thank you for getting back to me so quickly, I really appreciate the feedback.

I will definitely get a blood test before I start and during in order to adjust me dosing if need be. I’m slightly confused on what blood test to get and how to go about getting it. Do I just need a testosterone test of my free and bound/total test levels or should I get a complete hormone panel of pre cycle levels?

As for my cycle I think I’m going to stick with just test e, but I have enough for a 15 week cycle although I only want to do a 10 week. Should in up my dose of 500/week to 600-750/week or is the benefit of the increase unsubstantial?

Cycle Update:
W1-10 Test E 500mg/E3D
W3or4-10 Adex 0.25mg/EOD assuming my face puffs up (I have a very slender face which I assume will make bloating very noticeable)
W4-11 HCG 500iu/W (if I can get my hands on some for a relatively good price)

PCT
W12-16 Clomid 50/50/50/50
W12-16 Nolva 40/40/20/20

I might add some pics when I get a chance to show what I’m working with muscle base wise.

Bumping from 500 to 750 is big difference in my opinion especially with it being your first cycle.

Try privatemdlabs, Order your labs and go to a local labcorp. Cost 50 bucks for hormone panel. Check out the female hormone panel

I’d start the adex sooner. Estrogen will rise quickly

[quote]Reed wrote:
Bumping from 500 to 750 is big difference in my opinion especially with it being your first cycle.[/quote]

Okay I’ll most likely stick with 500 with that in mind. Thank you

[quote]Reed wrote:
Bumping from 500 to 750 is big difference in my opinion especially with it being your first cycle.[/quote]

Correct me if I’m wrong; I thought you suggested him to bump his dose up to 750???

[quote]ToolManSam wrote:

[quote]Reed wrote:
Bumping from 500 to 750 is big difference in my opinion especially with it being your first cycle.[/quote]

Correct me if I’m wrong; I thought you suggested him to bump his dose up to 750???[/quote]

I did and I do. He asked if there would be a substantial fiffernece in bumping up to 600 or 750 and I said

Bumping from 500 to 750 is big difference in my opinion especially with it being your first cycle

As in I think yes bumping up the dose would be a huge difference in the gains he would see especially since this is his first cycle. I’m not sure why he thinks I am suggesting not to bump up.

Maybe read his question wrong.

[quote]Reed wrote:

[quote]ToolManSam wrote:

[quote]Reed wrote:
Bumping from 500 to 750 is big difference in my opinion especially with it being your first cycle.[/quote]

Correct me if I’m wrong; I thought you suggested him to bump his dose up to 750???[/quote]

I did and I do. He asked if there would be a substantial fiffernece in bumping up to 600 or 750 and I said

Bumping from 500 to 750 is big difference in my opinion especially with it being your first cycle

As in I think yes bumping up the dose would be a huge difference in the gains he would see especially since this is his first cycle. I’m not sure why he thinks I am suggesting not to bump up.

Maybe read his question wrong.[/quote]

My fault for the confusion. i think have enough test e for 750 for 10 weeks so I will probably go ahead and do that. I think i took your comment as a negative because i was thinking along the lines of more substantial sides rather than gains from the bump up. Sorry for not clarifying

Got my pre-cycle bloodwork back yesterday

Test Total: 448
FSH: 2.3
LH: 5.8
Estradoil: 24.1

Anything look out of the ordinary?

Also, did my first pin of the cycle on Monday. Everything went smoothly, used about 300mg Test E and pinned in my quad. Yesterday I woke up stiff/sore as hell, felt like I pulled a muscle. Once I got moving around later in the day it seemed to loosen up. Today I woke up just as sore if not worse! Not too excited about the thought of the same thing happening to my other leg tomorrow

Damn, your numbers are a little low for a 21 year old

And if you want to reduce the soreness try putting the vial in warm water to heat up the oil. It will go in easier. Once youre done pinning massage the area for a minute or two, with a warm rag or something if you want.

Your numbers are quite low so this should really help you add some good mass once your numbers get where they should.

As for the gear use a hair dryer and get that shit hot. I mean as hot as you can tolerate pining it I pin about 3ml of gear into my quads at a time and have zero pain. Which I have been doing this for a while. However the hotter the gear the better but obviously you don’t want the shit boiling but it should be good and warm. Mine almost gets as thin as water when pinning from heat. Pin slower about 45 seconds per ml in my opinion maybe a little faster.

Also make sure your hands are as steady as possible. With that its virgin muscle every one goes through it your next pin will go better and the pin after that better.

pinning quads suuuuuucks

never again

[quote]Yogi wrote:
pinning quads suuuuuucks

never again[/quote]

What do you usually pin? All I’ve ever done is quads! I wanna try VG / glutes next.

[quote]CxTucker wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:
pinning quads suuuuuucks

never again[/quote]

What do you usually pin? All I’ve ever done is quads! I wanna try VG / glutes next.[/quote]

Glutes and delts brother. Now I’ve discovered the joys of slin pins in the delts I doubt I’ll pin anywhere else ever again.

If I had to pin more than one ml I’d pin glutes, but for 1ml or less it’s slin pins in the delts all the way now.

Tried VG a couple of times but I’ve just never liked the feel. Hit a vein once doing that too which freaked me out a bit.

Soon enough I’ll be pinning ED so just delts isn’t gonna fly! Gonna be both quads, both flutes, and probably alternating delts… I just hear that delts will make it too sore to move your arms up. Then again, quads can cripple me for days.

You’re liking slin pins?

I get literally ZERO soreness pinning my delts with slin pins. Could pin them every day I reckon.

Quad pins have me limping for a week but I reckon I’ll try them with slins and hope for the best!