T Nation

Ready For First Cycle? (Test C, Bloodwork, TRT, Lots Of Research, Lots Of Details)

Please read the ENTIRE FIRST POST before replying - thank you!

Cycle Details: I am tentatively planning to run my first cycle in April or May 2020. Cycle will consist of 400mg Testosterone Cypionate and 1mg of Arimidex split into 2 weekly doses (so 200mg Test C and 0.5mg Adex twice a week) for a total of 10-15 weeks (3-4 months or so).

I use 1cc insulin syringes for TRT (Bloodwork Below!), so 400mg / week is a lot simpler for me than the standard 500mg/week starter Blast Cycle.

Stats: 28.5 years old, 5’11" height, 162 pounds, 15.8% Body Fat (DexaScan done on 12/28/2019).

I am an Ectomorph - I can lose fat fairly easily, but I also lose muscle easily. I gain muscle slowly (Probably 90% due to poor genetics). From Oct 2019 to Dec 2019 (2 months), I lost 6.4 Pounds of Fat, and 4.7 Pounds of Muscle, as measured on DexaScans (can’t find a way to post the PDF on the forums unfortunately).

Diet: Have been cutting now for about 2 months - Daily Macros are currently 240g Protein, 150g Carbs, 45g Fat. Planning to lower Protein to 180g daily in 1-2 weeks. Also considering trying out a Keto Diet in 1-2 months.

Supplements: Stool Softener, Multi-Vitamin (split into 3 daily doses), Vitamin C 1g, Fish Oil 1g, Tryptophan (night time sleep aid), Phenibut (Rarely taken - night time sleep aid).

Weight Lifting Routine: Currently on a 5-6 day split (Chest, Quads, Arms, Shoulders, Posterior Chain, Back; with Calf and Ab accessory movements when time allows). Planning to move back to a 3-4 day split within 1-2 months - I feel that the current lifting routine is overkill and possibly impeding results.

I have been lifting for 2 years, and seriously lifting for 1 year.

TRT: I have been on TRT for a little over a year now - TRT protocol from May to November 2019 was 64mg SubQ injections twice a week; 128mg Test C weekly. Doctor and I increased dose to 70mg SubQ injections twice a week; 140mg Test C weekly as of December 2019!

Additional Testing I am planning to do an echocardiogram along with additional blood-work (Lipid Panel, Lipoprotein A, High Sensitivity CRP) in first part of Jan 2020 due to family history of high cholesterol and borderline lipid panel in November 2019.

Is there anything that I need to watch out for / unnecessary risks? Am I forgetting something? Any additional information needed?

My GOAL is to get slightly bulky/muscular with a lean physique (10-12% Body Fat) - sort of like Men’s Fitness Magazine.

TRT Blood-work below:

Reported Date : Nov 27, 2019

Test : CBC With Differential/Platelet
NAME RESULT REFERENCE INTERPRETATION STATUS(*) LAB
WBC 8.2 x10E3/uL 3.4-10.8 Normal F 01
RBC 5.27 x10E6/uL 4.14-5.80 Normal F 01
Hemoglobin 15.4 g/dL 13.0-17.7 Normal F 01
Hematocrit 45.5 % 37.5-51.0 Normal F 01
MCV 86 fL 79-97 Normal F 01
MCH 29.2 pg 26.6-33.0 Normal F 01
MCHC 33.8 g/dL 31.5-35.7 Normal F 01
RDW 13.3 % 12.3-15.4 Normal F 01
Platelets 188 x10E3/uL 150-450 Normal F 01
Neutrophils 74 % Not Estab. F 01
Lymphs 19 % Not Estab. F 01
Monocytes 6 % Not Estab. F 01
Eos 1 % Not Estab. F 01
Basos 0 % Not Estab. F 01
Neutrophils (Absolute) 6.0 x10E3/uL 1.4-7.0 Normal F 01
Lymphs (Absolute) 1.6 x10E3/uL 0.7-3.1 Normal F 01
Monocytes(Absolute) 0.5 x10E3/uL 0.1-0.9 Normal F 01
Eos (Absolute) 0.1 x10E3/uL 0.0-0.4 Normal F 01
Baso (Absolute) 0.0 x10E3/uL 0.0-0.2 Normal F 01
Immature Granulocytes 0 % Not Estab. F 01
Immature Grans (Abs) 0.0 x10E3/uL 0.0-0.1 Normal F 01

Test : Comp. Metabolic Panel (14)
NAME RESULT REFERENCE INTERPRETATION STATUS(*) LAB
Glucose, Serum 84 mg/dL 65-99 Normal F 01
BUN 18 mg/dL 6-20 Normal F 01
Creatinine, Serum 1.10 mg/dL 0.76-1.27 Normal F 01
eGFR If NonAfricn Am 91 mL/min/1.73 >59 Normal F 01
eGFR If Africn Am 105 mL/min/1.73 >59 Normal F 01
BUN/Creatinine Ratio 16 9-20 Normal F 01
Sodium, Serum 139 mmol/L 134-144 Normal F 01
Potassium, Serum 4.5 mmol/L 3.5-5.2 Normal F 01
Chloride, Serum 100 mmol/L 96-106 Normal F 01
Carbon Dioxide, Total 24 mmol/L 20-29 Normal F 01
Calcium, Serum 9.4 mg/dL 8.7-10.2 Normal F 01
Protein, Total, Serum 7.2 g/dL 6.0-8.5 Normal F 01
Albumin, Serum 5.0 g/dL 3.5-5.5 Normal F 01
Globulin, Total 2.2 g/dL 1.5-4.5 Normal F 01
A/G Ratio 2.3 1.2-2.2 High F 01
Bilirubin, Total 0.8 mg/dL 0.0-1.2 Normal F 01
Alkaline Phosphatase, S 73 IU/L 39-117 Normal F 01
AST (SGOT) 23 IU/L 0-40 Normal F 01
ALT (SGPT) 38 IU/L 0-44 Normal F 01

Test : LIPID PANEL, STANDARD
NAME RESULT REFERENCE INTERPRETATION STATUS(*) LAB
Cholesterol, Total 160 mg/dL 100-199 Normal F 01
Triglycerides 46 mg/dL 0-149 Normal F 01
HDL Cholesterol 38 mg/dL >39 Low F 01
VLDL Cholesterol Cal 9 mg/dL 5-40 Normal F 01
LDL Cholesterol Calc 113 mg/dL 0-99 High F 01

Test : TESTOSTERONE,FREE and TOTAL
NAME RESULT REFERENCE INTERPRETATION STATUS(*) LAB
Testosterone, Serum 971 ng/dL 264-916 High F 01
Adult male reference interval is based on a population of
healthy nonobese males (BMI <30) between 19 and 39 years old.
Travison, et.al. JCEM 2017,102;1161-1173. PMID: 28324103.
Free Testosterone(Direct) 25.0 pg/mL 9.3-26.5 Normal F 02

Test : ESTRADIOL
NAME RESULT REFERENCE INTERPRETATION STATUS(*) LAB
Estradiol 30.6 pg/mL 7.6-42.6 Normal F 01
Roche ECLIA methodology

Test : Prostate-Specific Ag, Serum
NAME RESULT REFERENCE INTERPRETATION STATUS(*) LAB
Prostate Specific Ag,
Serum
0.4 ng/mL 0.0-4.0 Normal F 01

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Post Placeholder.

Yes, you don’t need the adex… 99% chance you won’t need it at all on 400mg

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Another question… do I start injecting 200mg per dose all at once, or taper up? Does it really matter either way?

He also doesn’t need to blast. He needs to learn how to work out properly and EAT…

Why do I say that? Here…

And here…

And here…

No offense OP… you have well laid out plans. I just feel you need to work on gaining the right way with your TRT first.

6 Likes

As I said above I am currently cutting, not bulking. I am planning to cycle after I have finished cutting and gone back to maintenance (in 4-5 months).

However, I lost a ton of muscle on this cut despite controlling calorie intake / small weekly drops, weight lifting consistently, and having my TRT dose dialed in. Which is why I am blaming genetics.

Doctor and I increased TRT dose so I could test it out. I was dialed in fine at 128mg / week, but wanted to try running it a little higher long term.

@blshaw What exactly would you recommend regarding diet and lifting routine?

What was macro intake? How’s insulin sensitivity?

@unreal24278

I eat 4 equally portioned meals a day. I do not know what my insulin sensitivity is. I have tons of blood-work from earlier this year if there is some marker I can post.

Glucose

Insulin

Hba1c

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Glucose test below was fasted for over 12 hours:

HEMOGLOBIN A1C test below is from 1.5 years ago - this was Pre-TRT!!!

@unreal24278 Thanks for your replies. Unfortunately I do not have an insulin blood test in my records.

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K, regarding 4 meals, what was protein intake, a higher protein intake is generally recommended to offset catabolism associated with cutting

Vit D? (Bloods?)

Most of the populace is also boron deficient, this is a reasonable supplement to take both for general health and gym performance

Do you take creatine? (If you’re not a non responder it does make a difference)

what is your reasoning for eating so much protein?

Not surprising you’re losing muscle with that diet. Hard gainer isn’t your problem, you just don’t eat enough, or properly for your body type. Im 5’10 and change and started at 135lbs. I too, thought I was a hard gainer, compared to others, i am. But if you can’t hit 175-185 naturally, your diet and training are poor. Given you’ve been lifting for only a year seriously, you have PLENTY left to gain just on your TRT.

Being an ectomorph sucks when it comes to body building, but do you wanna know the GREATEST part about it? You don’t have to “cut”. Eat healthy, and you’ll stay lean. I eat 3500+ calories and I never go above 13-14% body fat. Ever. I also never do cardio.

Take advantage of being an ectomorph. Eat more carbs. Eat more healthy fats. You’re starving yourself for no reason. Go build some muscle before you consider blasting.

Don’t blame genetics. Your diet just isn’t keyed in, and you’re cutting when you don’t need to. Take advantage of your body type and learn to eat and train based on your body type. Blasting or running a cycle will not make up for your lack of proper diet.

If you’re truly an ectomorph, drop the “cut and bulk” stuff, and just eat and lift. You’ll put on lean muscle without the risk of nearly as much fat. The second you start to become unhappy with the fat, then just add a bit of cardio to combat it. EAT.

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IMO, the protein is the only thing that makes a lick of sense, and it’s his other macros that need some serious work. That’s just me though.

yeah more protein than required will do no real harm however the issue with high protein for me is simply the cost. there have been many studies that show that even a g/lb of bodyweight is potentially redundant and between .6 and .8 grams per pound can promote significant muscle gain.

specifially a group who were on anabolics, 600mg test (cyp I believe) consumed .75g/lb protein and in a period of between 10-12 weeks gained 6kg of fat free muscle mass.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199607043350101

STANDARDIZATION OF PROTEIN AND ENERGY INTAKE

Two weeks before day 1, the men were instructed to begin following a standardized daily diet containing 36 kcal per kilogram of body weight, 1.5 g of protein per kilogram.

CONCLUSION
The combined regimen of testosterone and exercise led to an increase of 6.1 kg in fat-free mass over the course of 10 weeks; this increase entirely accounted for the changes in body weight.

The exercise was standardized in all the men, and therefore the effects of testosterone on muscle size and strength cannot be attributed to more intense training in the groups receiving the treatment. Careful selection of experienced weight lifters, the exclusion of competitive athletes, and close follow-up ensured a high degree of compliance with the regimens of exercise, treatment, and diet, which was verified by three-day food records

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@unreal24278

240g protein a day split equally between 4 meals. So about 60g protein per meal.

VITAMIN D (25 HYDROXY) 31 ng/mL 20 - 50 ng/mL 09/07/2018 7:32 AM

My Multi-Vitamin (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01ITFL68M) has 1mg Boron in it. I’ve never heard of Boron deficiency in the population or increased gym performance from it - do you have a legitimate source?

I used to take Creatine, but I don’t any longer. I recently stopped BCAA’s and Glutamine as well. Supplements help, but the improvement is super marginal - diet and lifting is far more important, and a cycle will benefit results far more than supplements ever can/will.

@liverpool_96

I had a Bodybuilding coach from September to December 2019. 2 months bulking (I got up to 18.5% Body Fat @ 175 Pounds - gained way too much fat, which was partially my fault) and then 2 months cutting. He set the macros / protein - some of his advice / stuff to do ran counter-intuitive to research I had done in the past, but I accepted / did it because I was paying an “expert”.

240g protein is excessive IMO - which is why I am lowering it to 180g protein daily in like a week. Also considering trying Keto out in 1-2 months, and redoing weight lifting routine.

@aaronca

I am mostly an Ectomorph - I gained too much fat while bulking (partially my fault + BB coach set calories too damn high) and needed to drop fat. Maybe he shouldn’t have lowered calories so much, or maybe I should have simply done more cardio. Either way - despite high protein, consistent weightlifting, and high Total and Free Test levels - I lost virtually all of my 6 month gains.

If I eat too much, I do gain excessive fat. So I need to be careful of that.

I might as well continue focusing on leaning out, get to 10-12% Body Fat, and then start a blast when I am back at maintenance and/or in a slight bulk. Hopefully by April or May 2020…

@liverpool_96

I plan to lower my protein to 180g/day or so. Save some money + I don’t think its really helping based on Dexa Scans.

That would be perfect - I could live with 6kg fat free mass + no fat gain in 2-3 months. Hell, that’d probably put me fairly close to my long term goal…

Can someone answer this definitively? Any other comments, advice, concerns, etc.?