[quote]PB Andy wrote:
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
[quote]PB Andy wrote:
[quote]spar4tee wrote:
[quote]PB Andy wrote:
power clean, full clean, power snatch, full snatch. best for reactive strength
only for those with decent technique… otherwise, ignore me![/quote]
I thought those were more suited for starting strength[/quote]
You are thinking about the wrong part of the lift. The ‘catch’ portion of the clean/snatch, when done with moderate to heavy weight, with decent technique, will develop crazy reactive strength.
edit: now that I think about it, heavy jerks can also develop some crazy reactive strength in the legs (mainly quads).[/quote]
At the catch of an olympic movement, the resistance is at about zero. The reactive component of the lift is during the final completion phase of the lift. I agree that olympic movements are good but they are definitely not best for developing reactive strength for bigger squats and deadlifts for several reasons:
- If the weight is too heavy, the movement is too slow, and the reactive component is reduced.
- Most powerlifters will not be mobile enough for the full olympic lifts… and there is absolutely no reason for them to be.
- Not everyone can clean and snatch with good or even recognizable form. Everyone with two legs and two arms can jump, throw, and do push ups.
If heavy jerks do have a reactive force, it is minimal and I wouldn’t even put it in the same realm as other upper body pressing movements. The purpose of these exercises are not to “strengthen the quads” or any other muscle group. They are to improve the elastic properties of muscle by over loading the stretch reflex and by teaching the central nervous system to signal faster and harder.[/quote]
When you catch the lift, the resistance is not zero… the resistance is whatever is on the bar. Let’s say you catch a heavy ass power clean of 315 lbs, you catch it in the quarter squat position, and it pushes you down a few inches and your legs fight against that and absorb the weight and push it back up until you are upright. That is reactive strength being developed up the ass!
On point #1: if you are doing a slow clean or snatch, you are doing it wrong. It is often said in Olympic lifting circles that your warm-up with 135 lbs on the snatch should be as smooth as fast with a near-limit weight such as 405 lbs (for an elite lifter).
On point #2: agreed. However, if they are not mobile for a full squat clean or squat snatch, power snatches & power cleans are their friend.
On point #3: agreed.
I wouldn’t put jerks in an upper body pressing movement category for reactive strength either, it would be for the lower body, mainly quads. And trust me, the reactive force is HUGE on a heavy jerk. The definition of reactive strength is the ability to absorb force in one direction and then apply more force in the opposite direction. That is exactly what happens in a jerk, and can be a great exercise for developing the reactive strength of the quads, and to a much lesser degree, the glutes/hammies (negligible in the case of the jerk). Your last statement on reactive strength is actually exactly what happens in the jerk… [/quote]
How about a push jerk as opposed to the full blown jerk in the deep split stance? Like basically push press it up and dip just by putting a foot back a little with just a little knee bend to absorb the shock as much to reduce the distance the bar has be moved up. Is there an upper body reactive force component there? I was thinking because when I do those, it takes a ton of energy to absorb the weight when I catch it overhead from my shoulders and upper back.
What I like about olys is that they help me explode off the floor on deads better than speed pulls ever have. They build upper back, trap, and shoulder strength/size faster than anything else I’ve done which helps with all the power lifts. It’s some solid core work too. Also Snatching or pushing heavy weight overhead works the core like crazy.
I just love how oly’s do all of these in just one or two movements.
