Am I the only one seriously looking into buying a set of bumper plates after reading Chad Waterbury's piece in the training lab? ( http://www.T-Nation.com/strength-training-topics/1468 )
Comments like ''Nothing good happens in the lowering phase of a deadlift. Nothing.
Virtually everything that could possibly go wrong and injure your back is in that phase.''
''So when you lift heavy do your best to drop the barbell as fast as possible without busting your eardrums. If you do, you will recover faster, you will build strength faster, and you will stave off back injuries.''
My gym has steel plates. I try to be a good member and lower the bar to avoid minor tremors in the building. So it's probably a 1 sec. eccentric. But that still scares the shit out of me (and my back).
Just curious. How many of you drop the bar when deadlifting? And if not are you considering it?
I am not letting it free fall from my hands, but in no way I am trying to slow it down. I just let it drop, while I firmly grab it. A lot like what Matt Kroc does, I actually got the idea from him.
I completely agree with Mister Waterbury. My worst injuries have happened during the lowering phase of the deadlift. Sometimes I have to put towels under the plates so the clowns in my gym don't hear me drop it and come running.
if you have (a lot of) money, buy bumpers. If not, just be mindful of negative like everybody already is. simple.
wow is that article set up to be interpreted the wrong way.
Drop the bar, but maintain control of it.
My eccentric was pretty controlled prior to reading that piece. I really don't wanna run into problems so im gonna drop it like its hot
CT recommends that too
As someone who has deadlifted over 800lbs a couple times, I definitely agree. "Controlling" the negative on a heavy pull is a good way to kill yourself.
As you can see I just drop the weight in the gym... but at a competition i drop the bar but maintain control of it...
Should note: "Maintain control" means just keeping your hands on it so it doesn't roll away. It doesn't mean using any negative. Let gravity take it. Just don't let go.
I disagree with the no negative idea. Deadlifts are just like any other exercise, negatives aren't necessarily bad but they can be overused. If you are performing multiple reps you want to stay in position, a good chunk of being a good deadlifter is having isometric strength in your trunk and one way of training that is to do heavy weight with very low reps but another way of training that is to perform a lighter set of more reps (say 5-8 reps). For this I like continuous tension with a touch and go. A good negative (little bit of control but not a complete drop) helps set one for the next rep and incorporates a stretch reflex and more of a preload, both things which increase strength and safety. When I interviewed Vince Anello about his training (he had a 880 deadlift at 198, 810 in competition and the IPF world record for a time) he said he loved doing negative deadlifts, we incorporating them into our training (after being skeptical at first) and the guys seemed to like them. If you compete in PL you have to somewhat control the weight on the way down, not that it is hard but if you always practice dropping it then you might do that in a meet just as an automatic reflex. I have competed in old buildings, on the second floor, where at the rules briefing they told us we "had" to do a soft negative to not screw up the place. Finally, maybe it is because I grew up training in a commercial gym but I am not afraid to say it is freakin' annoying to have somebody drop a big deadlift from waist height. Don't get me wrong, the gym need not be a library by any means and some dumbbells dropping from a foot height or plates clanking together is music to my ears, but dropping 5 or 6 hundred pounds from waist height is damn annoying and if the equipment is not made for that it can easily warp a bar. If you choose to go negative free for your own training that is up to you but I would not be lead astray thinking that it is somehow wrong or dangerous to demonstrate a bit of control on the negative portion of a deadlift (or even perform full out negatives if you wish), a lot of good lifters have proven otherwise.
Just to add Poundstone and KK deadlift with what I would call a normal deadlift negative, control but not a waste of energy. KK likes to pause and reset at the bottom, Poundstone (and least from what I have seen, he has a 750x10 deadlift on youtube) does touch and go which is what I usually prefer personally.
This is the main reason I was so irritated with the 'Personal Trainer' who came up to me at the gym and tried to tell me I couldn't deadlift there and if I was, "Strong enough to lift the weight I should be strong enough to set it down gently."
It just represented such a lack of any real understanding of the dynamic of the movement.
Anytime I attempt to 'set it down gently' I feel stress in my SI and having had SI injuries that is the last thing I want and I am very in tune with it.
I don't drop the weight but I certainly lower it in a fast, controlled manner. I also prefer touch and go but there is room for both approachs in your training.
Got to agree with this one. I think nothing builds the deadlift muscles like heavy rep work on exercises like SLDLs, RDLs, and regular old deadlifts. Max Effort work and Dynamic Efforts, on the other hand, should have a limited eccentric.
Negatives are not harmful if done within your limits. That being said, a 1 rep max or PR attempt is not within a lifters limits, and controlling the bar on the way down is acceptable and the safer way. Do what you want in a home gym, but dropping a bar from lockout in a commercial gym is just disrespectful of the gyms equipment and other people.
Funny story, I was lifting in a meet and one of my competitors was warming up his deads. His coach kept telling him to drop the bar after lockout to save energy. His first deadlift got reds when he pulled to lockout and dropped the bar. He never quite recovered from his mistake, and only got his 2nd at the same weight. The moral of the story is, train like you lift.
Agreed. I don't want my deadlift bar ruined since I don't have bumper plates. I've never had a problem lowering a deadlift under control. And I've never made an error and got red lighted in a meet over it.
I noticed in that video that they showed only overhand grip. Is it bad to use a mixed grip?
I've had several lower back injuries and as such, I follow their recommendations and do a "controlled" fall.
To those that don't do this, good for you. I'm glad you can do this and not injure yourself. But I wouldn't be recommending the practice to others. Plates and bars are cheap compared to surgery and PT.
behexen: I personally don't use mixed grip because of the torque it puts on my back. But I'm not a powerlifter, sooooo......
Ive always performed the eccentric with very little control but definitely not dropped it. (I've always had problems with fatigue and the deadlift and instinctively known that controlling the descent is going to induce more fatigue).
I used to be keen to bang through my sets as fast as possible and would time them using a video camera. (eg I was pleased when I could do 140kg/315lbs*20 in 40s with no bouncing)
I did 190kg/420ish lbs for 10 reps with 50kg plates on the bar - was banging the bar around (not bouncing reps - I never do that - just not controlling the descent). One of the sleeves cracked in half and I was banned from the gym for life - I didnt realise what was going on until after the set. Damn shame as it was a dirt cheap membership and a real lifters gym.