T Nation

Reaching Natural Potential Before Juicing

So I just noticed lots of famous body builders have admitted to using steroids pretty young. Like arnold,flex wheeler,kevin levrone just to name a few. And i know that they did not reach theyre natural potential before using steroids. They might have reached theyre natural potential for that age but not like they would if they where 25 lets say. Because I know that arnold admited to using at 15 or 16 and flex even admitted to using at 18 and kevin levrone got 2nd in the olympia at 24 years old.

Then you look at ronnie coleman who waited till he was a lot older. I wonder if that Maybe gave him a edge. The reason i ask is because i know i can manage to get 5 to ten more pounds naturally. Im right now about 23 ,5’10 ,205 pounds about 14 percent body fat and still gaining about a pound a month of pure muscle not water weight or fat i check with a fat test electric hand held device.

So what do you guys think. Is it a person by person case when to juice full on or a set in stone thing for every one because flex seemed to do pretty damn good with his method. I just feel like im waisting time when i see everyone on pro hormones and steroids thats my age and i wonder if my idea is really gonna help me in the long run. I have done about 6 pro hormone cycles and a 3 month test cycle but haven’t touched anything for a year and a half. My test levels came back as normal when i had them tested they were 413ng.

everyone always says you should reach your natural potential before cycling, but nobody ever does. How would you even know you had reached it when you got there? It’s just something people say to try and discourage folks who have been working out for a couple of weeks from hopping on gear.

It’s like when noobs get told that squatting will make their arms bigger. It won’t, but it gets them squatting.

There is a certain threshold that you reach where beyond that, your body cannot maintain that naturally.

If you reach that threshold naturally or with drugs doesn’t matter. Lifting for a while before taking drugs is probably pointless for 99.99% of the population (maybe high tier athletes excluded) because it really isn’t going to give you any more gain.

[quote]Explosiv wrote:
There is a certain threshold that you reach where beyond that, your body cannot maintain that naturally.

If you reach that threshold naturally or with drugs doesn’t matter. Lifting for a while before taking drugs is probably pointless for 99.99% of the population (maybe high tier athletes excluded) because it really isn’t going to give you any more gain.

[/quote]
I call bullshit. Nothing personal. Your threshold, natural or otherwise, isn’t a line in the sand, it’s a continuum; one where the effort to push the next level and the compromises you make to get there increase exponentially the further you push from your base.

Pushing into that uncomfortable territory teaches you things that you won’t learn otherwise. Yes, if the same training experience could be shocked into our memories like the Matrix then getting to your bodycomp “potential” naturally or assisted wouldn’t matter. But this isn’t the Matrix.

More importantly, there is a reason most guys hit their best lifts in their 30s and 40s. It’s not because those are the prime physiological years to do so. It’s because by that age you’ve trained for several decades, the motor patterns of the movements you exercise are second nature, and your body has fine tuned it’s ability to recruit and reassign muscle fibers accordingly.

Steroids may increase strength, protein synthesis and lipolysis but they don’t increase neural efficiency as well as a decade of training, and they certainly don’t do your training for you. I trained for a very long time before I got on. No, I didn’t hit my natural potential first. Yes, I’m glad I waited and I think my next few cycles will be like Christmas. I’ll never be strong enough though. I thought I’d be happy when I could rep 225 in the squat, then 315, then 405, but it’s never enough. At least now, upping my dose means running 600mg/week.

[quote]Mad -scientist wrote:
So I just noticed lots of famous body builders have admitted to using steroids pretty young. Like arnold,flex wheeler,kevin levrone just to name a few. And i know that they did not reach theyre natural potential before using steroids. They might have reached theyre natural potential for that age but not like they would if they where 25 lets say. Because I know that arnold admited to using at 15 or 16 and flex even admitted to using at 18 and kevin levrone got 2nd in the olympia at 24 years old.

Then you look at ronnie coleman who waited till he was a lot older. I wonder if that Maybe gave him a edge. The reason i ask is because i know i can manage to get 5 to ten more pounds naturally. Im right now about 23 ,5’10 ,205 pounds about 14 percent body fat and still gaining about a pound a month of pure muscle not water weight or fat i check with a fat test electric hand held device.

So what do you guys think. Is it a person by person case when to juice full on or a set in stone thing for every one because flex seemed to do pretty damn good with his method. I just feel like im waisting time when i see everyone on pro hormones and steroids thats my age and i wonder if my idea is really gonna help me in the long run. I have done about 6 pro hormone cycles and a 3 month test cycle but haven’t touched anything for a year and a half. My test levels came back as normal when i had them tested they were 413ng. [/quote]

Pointing to a few big names who juiced early does not give an adequate picture. There are literally thousands of guys who juiced early and went no where and fucked themselves up. I can assure you dedication, pain, will power, motivation, perseverance and heart made them above all else not the age they started aas. Most people think they have all the above but its just “want”.

For the record those hand help fat testers are complete camel shit. Just post a pic of yourself and we will let you know if your near your “potential”.

I think time can be better used to research training and and actually picking heavy things up then posting about crazy " what if" scenarios all the time.

[quote]tattoo’d’popeye wrote:

[quote]Mad -scientist wrote:
So I just noticed lots of famous body builders have admitted to using steroids pretty young. Like arnold,flex wheeler,kevin levrone just to name a few. And i know that they did not reach theyre natural potential before using steroids. They might have reached theyre natural potential for that age but not like they would if they where 25 lets say. Because I know that arnold admited to using at 15 or 16 and flex even admitted to using at 18 and kevin levrone got 2nd in the olympia at 24 years old.

Then you look at ronnie coleman who waited till he was a lot older. I wonder if that Maybe gave him a edge. The reason i ask is because i know i can manage to get 5 to ten more pounds naturally. Im right now about 23 ,5’10 ,205 pounds about 14 percent body fat and still gaining about a pound a month of pure muscle not water weight or fat i check with a fat test electric hand held device.

So what do you guys think. Is it a person by person case when to juice full on or a set in stone thing for every one because flex seemed to do pretty damn good with his method. I just feel like im waisting time when i see everyone on pro hormones and steroids thats my age and i wonder if my idea is really gonna help me in the long run. I have done about 6 pro hormone cycles and a 3 month test cycle but haven’t touched anything for a year and a half. My test levels came back as normal when i had them tested they were 413ng. [/quote]

Pointing to a few big names who juiced early does not give an adequate picture. There are literally thousands of guys who juiced early and went no where and fucked themselves up. I can assure you dedication, pain, will power, motivation, perseverance and heart made them above all else not the age they started aas. Most people think they have all the above but its just “want”.

For the record those hand help fat testers are complete camel shit. Just post a pic of yourself and we will let you know if your near your “potential”.

I think time can be better used to research training and and actually picking heavy things up then posting about crazy " what if" scenarios all the time. [/quote]

I think genetics play a major role as well.

I have been researching training, diet, and steroids for at least 3 to 4 hours every night for the last 2 months. And before that I researched every day for years about supplements herbs and bodybuilders. and for the last 2 months ive been working out 4 to 5 times a week as hard as i can without hurting my self. And before i injured both my arms I worked out for about 4 years strait and took it very seriously.

I can see your point tatoo’d popeye I do have alot of what if scenerio’s but it ties into the bigger picture for me. Like my posts about being able to go pro on just steroids and the one about long term health effects of physique enhancing drugs.

Honestly its just a big decision to make to try to compete and to try to go pro and it will effect me for the rest of my life. And if im going to do it those where all things that I needed to know to not have any regrets. I think thats how angry ex-steroid users are created lol they didn’t know what they where getting into. I’ll post a picture soon I just want to get in better shape first maybe gain a extra 5 pounds of muscle and loose about 3 to 5 pounds of fat. Lol I will include legs to.

I’d also like to say I agree with the motor patterns theory. And I should go over all the lifts I can think of with a good trainer to make sure i have perfect technique and do higher repetitions and focus on the mind muscle connection. I feel that will help prevent injury and increase my ability to gain muscle faster while on a cycle.And i should start logging my food in exact measurements.

I don’t want to compete for the cash or anything it helps but its just I love training and I love looking in the mirror and literately watching how my body has created new muscle fibers and cells. Lol i feel like a scientist making a crazy creation in a laboratory and im the test subject. Hence the name mad scientist.

So i don’t think its want as much as it is something i love and I figure why not compete or at least try to and if i hate it than i know its not for me. For some reason when i go to the gym everything i hate about life is replaced by agonizing pain. It sounds weird but that pain is taking me away from a deeper pain kind of like some one who cuts them self. When I’m done working out i feel happy and my anger is gone and the things and people who piss me off seem so irrelevant after the work out. Because there is nothing but that moment when you are working out on that last set of squats especially.

Some how when i leave the gym and i hear those agonizing screams of people on that last set fade away as the door closes I feel like walking back in there and doing more it makes me smile every time. LOL maybe I am very sick in the head. But if you watch a old video of tom platz working out maybe he is to. So that is my responce to “want”. I do enjoy reading your feed back everyone. And everything I say I don’t meen any of it negatively to any of you or sarcastically. I do believe you are all trying to help me and i value all your comments very much. And when i do use again im gonna start on a really low dose like 500 mgs a week of test e and try to let the training do the work.