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Raw Training

I was curious as to the opinions of members on Raw training. Is more volume needed and more frequent training days?

Is a three day split adequate to build strength?

Is their a best or better program for Raw/Natural lifters?

You asking about raw, or natural, or both?

both.

More volume/frequent training than what?

I am just curious how Raw/Unassisted lifters train. And how that differs from a geared/assisted lifter.

what about raw/assisted and geared/unassisted…

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
More volume/frequent training than what?[/quote]

I was reading a critique on several programs on Powerliftingtowin.com. He frequently criticized programs for not being developed for Raw/unassisted lifters. Stating Raw lifters needed more volume and frequency of training. Many of the programs he recommended required two or more days training the bench press and at least two days training Squat/DL.

I’m no expert. I am curious from the more experienced lifters here what their opinion is on this topic.

[quote]rusty92 wrote:
what about raw/assisted and geared/unassisted…[/quote]

I would like to know. Added to my confusion.

Well with anything there is no one right way, in the training world I think it has more of a pendulum effect. The question you posed, for raw natural lifters, one far side of the pendulum would be the high frequency approach that many suggest. On the other side it would be low frequency with alot of focus on assistance movements. But in my opinion, for a raw natural lifter that could be classified as an intermediate I would suggest maybe somewhere in the middle. I know thats probably not as a definitive answer as you want though

Does volume and frequency really vary b/t raw and geared?

Does somehow the human body recover faster from one v. the other? Just doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

Of course natural v. assisted, that’s a different story.

[quote]calebsmitty wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
More volume/frequent training than what?[/quote]

I was reading a critique on several programs on Powerliftingtowin.com. He frequently criticized programs for not being developed for Raw/unassisted lifters. Stating Raw lifters needed more volume and frequency of training. Many of the programs he recommended required two or more days training the bench press and at least two days training Squat/DL.

I’m no expert. I am curious from the more experienced lifters here what their opinion is on this topic. [/quote]

Again though, more than WHAT? Without an established baseline it’s impossible to say if something needs to be more or less than.

For example, 10/20 Life by Brian Carroll. His program calls for three days for main lifts and an optional Extra Day. One day for each of the big three lifts. With 2-3 assistance lifts. The optional 4th day is an upper body emphasis day. Volume and RPE is controlled.

Is this adequate work for a raw powerlifter?

[quote]calebsmitty wrote:
For example, 10/20 Life by Brian Carroll. His program calls for three days for main lifts and an optional Extra Day. One day for each of the big three lifts. With 2-3 assistance lifts. The optional 4th day is an upper body emphasis day. Volume and RPE is controlled.

Is this adequate work for a raw powerlifter?

[/quote]

One reason why there are so many programs is because no single program works for everyone. That program might be adequate for some while not for others. All you really need to know is that you need to find something that works for you and increase the volume over time to continually force adaptation (even if it’s as small as a 1% increase each month).

People make a big deal about low vs. high volume programming but IMO the difference doesn’t seem like that big of a deal. If two people are squatting 500 lbs and one person has to train with 30% more volume to get there, does it really matter? Are there any examples of the difference being a lot greater when comparing lifters having similar strength?

I think in general programming has to be adequate enough to provide a stimulus, yes, but a big component of it all is whether or not you enjoy training. If your doing high volume and you feel like shit everytime you walk in the gym, your bound to be less motivated and put less effort into it all. If your lifting heavy but infrequently and enjoy going to the gym every session because you’re rested and excited to lift heavy then you’re going to enjoy the process more. I think it applies to everyone trying to get better at anything ever. Especially with such a monotonous sport like powerlifting whether it be raw or geared, natural or enhanced.

[quote]calebsmitty wrote:
I was curious as to the opinions of members on Raw training. Is more volume needed and more frequent training days?

Is a three day split adequate to build strength?

Is their a best or better program for Raw/Natural lifters?

[/quote]
For any kind of lifters, the key to continued progress is called progressive overload. Basically, you need to do more than you are doing now to force your body to adapt. Volume = weight X reps, so if you increase the number of reps, sets, weight/intensity, or frequency of training, your total volume automatically goes up. You could increase intensity and decrease volume and still make gains, but the focus would be more on neural adaptations rather than hypertrophy. If you want to get bigger and stronger then you need to do both.

There is no “best program”, but there are different programs that work for different people. Lifters who use steroids can make more progress than natural lifters with less frequent training because the drugs increase the time of muscle protein synthesis cycles. That’s not to say that training each lift once a week definitely can’t work for natural lifters, but chances are that you would make better gains training more often. In Norway, a lot of lifters are now training 5-6 days a week because of a study that found increased frequency with the same volume to give better results, but they are also using low volume per session and every set is far from failure.

Thanks for the replies.

I have been questioning whether I need to increase volume for the sake of hypertrophy. In the last 5 years of training I generally have not done much volume.

I just recently ran a Westside Based program. I got the template from an article “How I would Westside”. A template for Raw lifters to train Westside. I like the training frequency and the extra volume on auxiliary. I am just curious what other Raw lifters find to be most beneficial.

I lift raw. I’ve trained 4 days a week, hitting each major lift once per week (ohp, bench, deadlift, squat) for the last several years. I recently decided to double the frequency, hitting each lift twice per week: 1 speed day, light day, volume day, whatever you want to call it. The other is a heavy day. Still just 4 training sessions a week though. I’m doing 2 major lifts everytime I go to the gym instead of 1. I like it so far.

I would say that either way can work. Work had and eat big, and most other things fall into place. There is no perfect program. You have to find what works for you.