T Nation

Raw Training for Lightweight Lifter


#1

Hi, first post on T-Nation!

I am from the UK and am currently training for the British Champs in Feb 13. I compete in the 67.5kg (148lb) weight class and am drug free and unequipped. Through following a non specific powerbuilding routine I have just made a deadlift PB of 230kg (507lb). My squat is around 160kg (350lb) and my bench 110kg (242lb). I have been lifting about 2 years but never taken the program seriously.

I have had a look at Westside, but the lack of deadlifting concerns me (its my favourite and best lift). Others considered are the 5/3/1 but I have heard people say it isnt for the competing powerlifter as there is no peaking, but please correct me if I am wrong. (I have purchased the ebook, and never really utilised it.

To help progress further I would like to follow a specific program rather than just guessing, and also introduce elements like rack lockouts, board presses, bands etc. I train alot on my own.

My goals are a 120kg bench, 170kg squat and 240kg deadlift.

Any help in selecting a program would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks in advance, just help me end all this guess-work!

Jordan

also any evaluation on my deadlift would be appreciated.


#2

Westside
5/3/1
Ed Coan’s
Sheiko
Juggernaut
Bulgarian

Just read about them and chose the one that works the best for you.


#3

I use 5-3-1 and have enjoyed it. The Poewrlifting version of the book is obviously geared for PL with a peak prep, but you can find an article Wendler wrote on it and follow it if you just have the original book. Basically switch your 5’s and 3’s week around, don’t rep out the last set, and do heavy singles in the first (new 3’s week) and 531 weeks instead. Easy.


#4

I second 531 for powerlifting.


#5

Westside, but throw in deadlifts variations


#6

I need to get my hands on the 5/3/1 for powerlifting book.


#7

531 for powerlifting works for me. Recovering from a broken hip/leg my deadlift went from 245 in January to 352 in July.


#8

Thanks for the input guys. I have had a look at the amendments Jim has made specifically for the competing powerlifter. However I am still kind of lost how to integrate dynamic training into the program. Westside does look interesting but again, just throw in deadlifts isnt very specific. Sorry if I sound like an idiot or a**hole.

Anymore tips/hints?


#9

Jim says don’t do dynamic training. There is none in 531. Just simple linear progression will work for damn near everyone. Throw in some heavy singles on your heavy weeks, and push assistance work on your 5 week in the middle. Then DELOAD and do it again.


#10

Sprints, jumps, throws, etc. That’s all dynamic work.


#11

I’m enjoying the Doug Hepburn program. For most of the time use the doubles to triples program but I’d use the singles to doubles w/ 90% of your max for peaking.


#12

Hopefully someone who’s been on it longer can expand, but I felt the same way as you do about WS and deadlifts. You still do them every week on DE Lower day, and whenever you want as an ME movement (a variation, at least). I’m still doing them enough to stay entertained, and I’m making PRS. Not saying its the best option for you, but your pull shouldn’t suffer on it. Just look at STB, he has a bloody big deadlift.


#13

There is no one size fits all strength program. There are many that work, and sometimes with contrasting methods.

There are old school methods like Ditillo’s Physical Strength (a must read), to old Anello and Coan deadlift routines floating around. Then there is Westside, and 5-3-1…etc. Some of these work really well for some people, and for others they dont. Different routines may work well and then stall out.

Stick to one for a while and keep a log, learn to listen to your body. This may sound like non specific advice, but after you do that, you will learn whether you should Deadlift heavy every week, hardly at all, do speedwork…etc. This is because your genetics and my genetics are different.

For what its worth, I have done 5-3-1 for a few years, with several variations…including the powerlifting one, BBB, my own west-side 531 blend.

I dont want to speak for Jim, but I believe he wants to KISS because people tend to major in the minors.

For ME, personally, I have added some moderate DE work for bench and box squat into 5-3-1, and use my deload weeks as DE work as well.

I have seen good results in my squat particularly. I will be able to evaluate my past 4 cycles of my 5-3-1 west side experiment at my next meet. If it doesnt work, back to the drawing board, but the most important thing is learning.


#14

Thanks for all the replies, I suppose I will just pick a program and stick with it, I really havent given one program long enough, but I think i have got to a level where turning up to the gym and lifting what ever, wont cut it anymore. Also I suppose I need to concentrate on my weakness (bench press) rather than my strength (deadlift).


#15

Cube training is something interesting from Brandon Lilly that I’m just starting to try out. It’s conjugate periodization (westside-ish) in that for each lift you have a DE and ME day. The only difference is you throw in a RE day as well. So for Deads in the first week it’s ME, then for squat in the first week its DE, then for bench in the first week its RE.

Then its Deads for RE in the second, ME for the squat in the second, and DE for the bench in the second. Then for the third its DE Dead, RE squat, ME Bench, and then it continues to move on to the first week. So you deadlift every week either dynamically, maximum, or repetition. For repetition, I use basically the 5s or the 3s week from 5/3/1 but I don’t go for max reps. Just 3-5 sets of 5 or 3-5 sets of 3 with the typical prescribed percentages from 5/3/1. Its a way to practice your lifts.

I’m just starting this week but the RE for deadlift day felt good in that I was more focused on form and pulling efficiently instead of just pulling like crazy for a PR. That’s for another week.


#16

You do DE deadlifts in westside and you can easily put a variation as ME work.


#17

[quote]cscsDPT17 wrote:
Cube training is something interesting from Brandon Lilly that I’m just starting to try out. It’s conjugate periodization (westside-ish) in that for each lift you have a DE and ME day. The only difference is you throw in a RE day as well. So for Deads in the first week it’s ME, then for squat in the first week its DE, then for bench in the first week its RE.

Then its Deads for RE in the second, ME for the squat in the second, and DE for the bench in the second. Then for the third its DE Dead, RE squat, ME Bench, and then it continues to move on to the first week. So you deadlift every week either dynamically, maximum, or repetition. For repetition, I use basically the 5s or the 3s week from 5/3/1 but I don’t go for max reps. Just 3-5 sets of 5 or 3-5 sets of 3 with the typical prescribed percentages from 5/3/1. Its a way to practice your lifts.

I’m just starting this week but the RE for deadlift day felt good in that I was more focused on form and pulling efficiently instead of just pulling like crazy for a PR. That’s for another week.[/quote]

So basically you rotate through RE/ME/DE with the main lifts.

Interesting.