Raw Powerlifting

well,

i have been in my share of gear debates, when the dust settles, i am still bewildered as to how people can take so seriously what others say about the gear used in a sport with less of a fan base than ping-pong.

i mean really, i think the gear is out of hand, so what? big deal. its just my opinion. but people who i used to call friends, who have helped me out in personal issues and vice versa, have pretty much villified me and said very personally cruel things about myself just because of my stance on gear.

to redirect, unless i miss read, i could own the deadlift world record in the 220lb 40-44 class in that fed.

woo-hoo!

I usually find it’s not the people that actually compete in raw that are bitching about gear, but the people who are just lifting in the gym and don’t know how to use gear that think they’re “raw”.

[quote]Uber N3wb wrote:
mozhne wrote:
Right on. That’s what I’m looking for. Some good old debate. Let me clarify my stance on geared lifting. All I mean is that if you lift with gear I don’t have any respect for you or your lifts. There is an old video on this forum with Vince Anello on national TV. These days with 1,000’s of channels and countless hours of Sports programming Powerlifting is not even a blip on the screen. Why? Because it has become a joke of a sport.

Guys with Giant bellys doing a half knee bend out of a monolift with gear they can hardly walk in is about as fun to watch as soccer. I know about telling people you lift more than you do. After my meets I told people the suited/wrapped squat. Hell I would have had 100 lbs off my total if I didn’t use a suit/wraps.

You guys who talk about a (insert number here) bench with a shirt, get real. You make a mockery of everything about strength. Dr. Squat himself said he rejects Powerlifting, doesn’t even consider it a sport anymore.

Barry

If Dr Squat is saying it Im gonna have to agreee… Because he is the man.

Thats not even questionable, hes just the man.
[/quote]

2 things.

  1. I want a link to where Hatfield said this and I also want what prompted it so I have context. Without context this statement is meaningless.

Last time I checked Hatfied was a geared lifter, per both definitions, and also had the spotters remove the uprights for squats so he puts himself in a pretty precarious position making a broad based statement like that. I’ve got to think it was made in response to something specific.

  1. You guys are aware that his daughter, Disa, is a prominent USAPL/IPF lifter. I wonder if his opinions carry over to his daughters accomplishments?

Lastly, you don’t get “good old debate” by posting asinine shit. You get flamed and dismissed. As far as I am concerned you are a douchebag with a big mouth.

[quote]mozhne wrote:
Right on. That’s what I’m looking for. Some good old debate. Let me clarify my stance on geared lifting. All I mean is that if you lift with gear I don’t have any respect for you or your lifts.
[/quote]

I accept and respect the many differing opinions on gear in powerlifting, and I can agree or at least understand the feeling on both sides of the debate, but I baulk a little at this.
You have been involved in powerlifting in the past, you are involved in a strength sport community on T-Nation, and you obviously still feel strongly about it. You are entitled to your opinion on equipment and the problems of our sport.

And then you say you have no respect for any individual who lifts with gear???

By all means, attack gear, steroids, federations, questionably lifts and anything else that you feel like, but don’t attack a lifter who hasn’t acted like an idiot. Let alone several thousand, some of which are active in this forum.

Raw federations do not exist in my country or the majority of the world.
If I want to represent my country, I must lift in a federation that uses equipment, and at some stage there’s a chance that I might actually have to use said equipment to be granted that privilege.
And representation is the only way I can compete against lifters who have a chance of making a total that would get them in the top 100 in the USA in my weight class.

Most of the lifters I know are Masters, and between shoulder, knee and back issues there are not many that would be able to lift without equipment to assist. Numbered among these is a man in his 60’s in the 148 pound class who holds the deadlift world record for the class and a former OL competitor who has torn rotators and last attempt at heavy squatting had him partially paralysed for a few days. He is benching high 500’s.

These are people who would quite happily compete raw. But they have no raw federation to compete in simply because of where they live. Most have injuries that prevent them anything close to heavy without equipment. They aren’t on forums claiming equipped numbers as raw. They are just doing what they enjoy, and I don’t think that they deserve to be treated with a lack of respect simply because of that.

I hope I have misunderstood and that is not what you, or anyone for that matter, feels; that simply using equipment means that you should be treated with contempt, regardless of the reasons behind it.

Your best raw lifts don’t get canceled simply because you wear a bench shirt.
Knee wraps don’t undo everything you’ve done for your friends, family and strangers.
And a squat suit is never going to change who you are.

Last I heard, geared lifters don’t compete against raw lifters, it’s two different things so stop hating. My only problem is when a shirted bencher says that he benches xxx lbs and does not specify that he used gear.

[quote]mozhne wrote:
Hell I would have had 100 lbs off my total if I didn’t use a suit/wraps.
[/quote]

If you’re only getting 100 pounds out of your total from wrapping and suiting up, you must suck really bad at lifting in gear, which is probably the root of your insecure hatred.

Read that post by Hatfield on his Dr.squat forum. The reason you guys won’t compete Raw is that you are scared. Scared of the true total you will hit. Yea I only got 100 lbs from my suit and wraps. But I have not competed since 2000 and I never plan to compete again. Never used a bench shirt. Hit 352 one time on the bench at 198. That took a long time to get to that weight. Pulled 596 at 198. Made the top 100 one time.

Point? Powerlifting is such an obscure sport and it is even more obscure in Idaho. Sports live and die by bringing young competitors into the sport. Right now I train 10-12 teenagers that want to get stronger for Football. I should be promoting powerlifting to them, bringing them into the fold so to speak.

Yet I see what a joke the sport is and has become and I tell these kids to stay away from it. Why? Gear and juice. One of these kids at 16 can hit a no Bullshit bench of 325 with a tank top on. Here is a future powerlifter. I tell him not to waste his time. Now you take these 12 kids, they aren’t going to buy DVD’s of training or subscribe to Powerlifting USA or buy a suit or a belt or become members of a Powerlifting organization. (This is a broad generalization yes I realize this).

What does this mean to the sport? Well who cares? I stand by what I said. I have no respect for your suited totals. For the record I have never seen or competed in a Raw meet. Just saw the vids and was impressed. And to the guy who ran me down for only getting 100 lbs out of my suit: Congrats, you made the point exactly. You pinpoint the problem with suited lifters. Nice work.

Barry

So, because of your own personal bias, you’re discouraging potential young athletes from joining a sport that they might enjoy and excel at?

Man, way to be a great role model. Seriously, what the hell dude?

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
So, because of your own personal bias, you’re discouraging potential young athletes from joining a sport that they might enjoy and excel at?

Man, way to be a great role model. Seriously, what the hell dude?[/quote]

Agreed. What a knob goblin.

[quote]apwsearch wrote:
T3hPwnisher wrote:
So, because of your own personal bias, you’re discouraging potential young athletes from joining a sport that they might enjoy and excel at?

Man, way to be a great role model. Seriously, what the hell dude?

Agreed. What a knob goblin.[/quote]

I second that. Geared lifting isn’t as simple as “I bench 600 raw and I’ve never used gear, but as soon as I wear gear, it will be up to 800!” It requires hardwork, and people with a clouded personal bias wouldn’t see that.

Been looking on the Dr. Squat site for what he said about gear: suits and such not test. here is something from Powerlifting legend Ricky Dale Crain: Rickey Dale Crain

Joined: 06 Jun 2006
Posts: 85
Location: www.crain.ws
Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:19 pm Post subject: baloney


this is the biggest load of crap…periodization is at least based on actual scientific studies…and the lifters of the …70’s and 80’s were much superior to those of today…take away the new gear and oyu have nothing…look at the deadlift as an example…more 8o0 pound dl’s in the 80’s-90’s than today…

rdc
This is a response to a thread about the periodization article here on Tnation. Note: take away the new gear and you have nothing…

Looked through 9 pages at Dr.Squat. Can’t find the quote. If it please the court I withdraw the Dr. Squat statement on the grounds that I can’t find the link. In 1983 I went to Austin Texas to watch the senior nationals. There was a lifter named Jeff Magruder (not sure of spelling) who benched something like 550 wearing just a singlet. Now that’s a bench. Dude had some serious muscle. Problem is that now a guy can come in and equal that lift without being equal to the lifter that made that lift.

Saw a guy named Sandlin try a 1000 lb squat. This guy was huge. It was the year before Moran hit a 1000 lb. squat. Sandlin tore his quad or something bad with that try. These pretenders coming up with 1000 lb squats today are not equal. Of course back then the gloves were off when it came to dball and such. Saw a 19 year old kid at a state meet inject into his behind a syringe full of something. He told me it was adrenaline. Possible? Don’t know but he went out and pulled 805 and then went screaming around the gym like a maniac. Guy shot himself about 2 years later. Truth is boys you are killing a sport that is a marginal sport at best, But a sport that at it’s core demands your best efforts. If your best efforts include gear you are fooling yourself.

Barry

[quote]mozhne wrote:
In 1983 I went to Austin Texas to watch the senior nationals. There was a lifter named Jeff Magruder (not sure of spelling) who benched something like 550 wearing just a singlet. Now that’s a bench. Dude had some serious muscle. Problem is that now a guy can come in and equal that lift without being equal to the lifter that made that lift.

Barry[/quote]

No, the guy doesn’t equal that lift, because it’s a geared lift vs. a raw lift. They’re different competitions.

Shouldn’t you be out crushing the hopes and dreams of young athletes and telling people about how things were better in the old days? I have a rocking chair for you.

[quote]mozhne wrote:
Been looking on the Dr. Squat site for what he said about gear: suits and such not test. here is something from Powerlifting legend Ricky Dale Crain: Rickey Dale Crain

Joined: 06 Jun 2006
Posts: 85
Location: www.crain.ws
Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:19 pm Post subject: baloney


this is the biggest load of crap…periodization is at least based on actual scientific studies…and the lifters of the …70’s and 80’s were much superior to those of today…take away the new gear and oyu have nothing…look at the deadlift as an example…more 8o0 pound dl’s in the 80’s-90’s than today…

rdc
This is a response to a thread about the periodization article here on Tnation. Note: take away the new gear and you have nothing…

Looked through 9 pages at Dr.Squat. Can’t find the quote. If it please the court I withdraw the Dr. Squat statement on the grounds that I can’t find the link. In 1983 I went to Austin Texas to watch the senior nationals. There was a lifter named Jeff Magruder (not sure of spelling) who benched something like 550 wearing just a singlet. Now that’s a bench. Dude had some serious muscle. Problem is that now a guy can come in and equal that lift without being equal to the lifter that made that lift.

Saw a guy named Sandlin try a 1000 lb squat. This guy was huge. It was the year before Moran hit a 1000 lb. squat. Sandlin tore his quad or something bad with that try. These pretenders coming up with 1000 lb squats today are not equal. Of course back then the gloves were off when it came to dball and such. Saw a 19 year old kid at a state meet inject into his behind a syringe full of something. He told me it was adrenaline. Possible? Don’t know but he went out and pulled 805 and then went screaming around the gym like a maniac. Guy shot himself about 2 years later. Truth is boys you are killing a sport that is a marginal sport at best, But a sport that at it’s core demands your best efforts. If your best efforts include gear you are fooling yourself.

Barry[/quote]

Blah, blah, blah.

Crain competed in gear too. He has posted more times than I can count in opposition to RAW lifting.

You have no idea what you even speak of. You read something on “Dr. Squat’s” forum and we are supposed to take you seriously?

You’re a sad washed up angry little man.

You have no credibility. Nothing you could post at this point would make you look even remotely credible.

Run along now.

W/e its all about the OLYMPIC lifters, all you sissy powerlifters don’t know anything. Parallel HAH

(sarcasm)

[quote]mozhne wrote:
First off let me tell you when I competed in Powerlifting I always used a suit and knee wraps. Best I ever got ‘raw’ was a 465 squat in the gym. In a meet 550 with suit and wraps. Never used a bench shirt or deadlift assistance. Now check out these lifters. Found this link on Dr.Squat’s forum. This lifting exposes what a joke Powerlifting has become meaning all the equipment has destroyed any resemblance of a sporting event.

My competitive lifting days are long gone but if you are going to compete, compete in one of these raw deals. Everything else is a joke. http://www.rawpowerlifting.com/videos.htm

Barry[/quote]

This thread makes me soooooooo beyond angry I can’t possibly describe it. I’m gonna go beat the shit out of someone, and I’m gonna put my bench shirt on to do it, cause I’ll punch harder…

[quote]mozhne wrote:
Been looking on the Dr. Squat site for what he said about gear: suits and such not test. here is something from Powerlifting legend Ricky Dale Crain: Rickey Dale Crain

Joined: 06 Jun 2006
Posts: 85
Location: www.crain.ws
Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:19 pm Post subject: baloney


this is the biggest load of crap…periodization is at least based on actual scientific studies…and the lifters of the …70’s and 80’s were much superior to those of today…take away the new gear and oyu have nothing…look at the deadlift as an example…more 8o0 pound dl’s in the 80’s-90’s than today…

rdc
This is a response to a thread about the periodization article here on Tnation. Note: take away the new gear and you have nothing…

Looked through 9 pages at Dr.Squat. Can’t find the quote. If it please the court I withdraw the Dr. Squat statement on the grounds that I can’t find the link. In 1983 I went to Austin Texas to watch the senior nationals. There was a lifter named Jeff Magruder (not sure of spelling) who benched something like 550 wearing just a singlet. Now that’s a bench. Dude had some serious muscle. Problem is that now a guy can come in and equal that lift without being equal to the lifter that made that lift.

Saw a guy named Sandlin try a 1000 lb squat. This guy was huge. It was the year before Moran hit a 1000 lb. squat. Sandlin tore his quad or something bad with that try. These pretenders coming up with 1000 lb squats today are not equal. Of course back then the gloves were off when it came to dball and such. Saw a 19 year old kid at a state meet inject into his behind a syringe full of something. He told me it was adrenaline. Possible? Don’t know but he went out and pulled 805 and then went screaming around the gym like a maniac. Guy shot himself about 2 years later. Truth is boys you are killing a sport that is a marginal sport at best, But a sport that at it’s core demands your best efforts. If your best efforts include gear you are fooling yourself.

Barry[/quote]

Who holds the raw WR for the bench press, and what is the raw WR for the squat?

[quote]undeadlift wrote:
mozhne wrote:
Been looking on the Dr. Squat site for what he said about gear: suits and such not test. here is something from Powerlifting legend Ricky Dale Crain: Rickey Dale Crain

Joined: 06 Jun 2006
Posts: 85
Location: www.crain.ws
Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:19 pm Post subject: baloney


this is the biggest load of crap…periodization is at least based on actual scientific studies…and the lifters of the …70’s and 80’s were much superior to those of today…take away the new gear and oyu have nothing…look at the deadlift as an example…more 8o0 pound dl’s in the 80’s-90’s than today…

rdc
This is a response to a thread about the periodization article here on Tnation. Note: take away the new gear and you have nothing…

Looked through 9 pages at Dr.Squat. Can’t find the quote. If it please the court I withdraw the Dr. Squat statement on the grounds that I can’t find the link. In 1983 I went to Austin Texas to watch the senior nationals. There was a lifter named Jeff Magruder (not sure of spelling) who benched something like 550 wearing just a singlet. Now that’s a bench. Dude had some serious muscle. Problem is that now a guy can come in and equal that lift without being equal to the lifter that made that lift.

Saw a guy named Sandlin try a 1000 lb squat. This guy was huge. It was the year before Moran hit a 1000 lb. squat. Sandlin tore his quad or something bad with that try. These pretenders coming up with 1000 lb squats today are not equal. Of course back then the gloves were off when it came to dball and such. Saw a 19 year old kid at a state meet inject into his behind a syringe full of something. He told me it was adrenaline. Possible? Don’t know but he went out and pulled 805 and then went screaming around the gym like a maniac. Guy shot himself about 2 years later. Truth is boys you are killing a sport that is a marginal sport at best, But a sport that at it’s core demands your best efforts. If your best efforts include gear you are fooling yourself.

Barry

Who holds the raw WR for the bench press, and what is the raw WR for the squat?[/quote]

I don’t know but that guy squatting in the video on the link posted must be close. That is a hell of a lot of weight. Don’t know the Bench either. Maybe Kaz, Maybe there is somebody now who has benched as much. Those guys have my respect.

Barry

[quote]OneDay wrote:
mozhne wrote:
First off let me tell you when I competed in Powerlifting I always used a suit and knee wraps. Best I ever got ‘raw’ was a 465 squat in the gym. In a meet 550 with suit and wraps. Never used a bench shirt or deadlift assistance. Now check out these lifters. Found this link on Dr.Squat’s forum. This lifting exposes what a joke Powerlifting has become meaning all the equipment has destroyed any resemblance of a sporting event.

My competitive lifting days are long gone but if you are going to compete, compete in one of these raw deals. Everything else is a joke. http://www.rawpowerlifting.com/videos.htm

Barry

This thread makes me soooooooo beyond angry I can’t possibly describe it. I’m gonna go beat the shit out of someone, and I’m gonna put my bench shirt on to do it, cause I’ll punch harder…[/quote]

That’s a little harsh. Easy now, this is the INTERNET. Not real life. Breathe deep.

Barry

[quote]apwsearch wrote:
mozhne wrote:
Been looking on the Dr. Squat site for what he said about gear: suits and such not test. here is something from Powerlifting legend Ricky Dale Crain: Rickey Dale Crain

Joined: 06 Jun 2006
Posts: 85
Location: www.crain.ws
Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 5:19 pm Post subject: baloney


this is the biggest load of crap…periodization is at least based on actual scientific studies…and the lifters of the …70’s and 80’s were much superior to those of today…take away the new gear and oyu have nothing…look at the deadlift as an example…more 8o0 pound dl’s in the 80’s-90’s than today…

rdc
This is a response to a thread about the periodization article here on Tnation. Note: take away the new gear and you have nothing…

Looked through 9 pages at Dr.Squat. Can’t find the quote. If it please the court I withdraw the Dr. Squat statement on the grounds that I can’t find the link. In 1983 I went to Austin Texas to watch the senior nationals. There was a lifter named Jeff Magruder (not sure of spelling) who benched something like 550 wearing just a singlet. Now that’s a bench. Dude had some serious muscle. Problem is that now a guy can come in and equal that lift without being equal to the lifter that made that lift.

Saw a guy named Sandlin try a 1000 lb squat. This guy was huge. It was the year before Moran hit a 1000 lb. squat. Sandlin tore his quad or something bad with that try. These pretenders coming up with 1000 lb squats today are not equal. Of course back then the gloves were off when it came to dball and such. Saw a 19 year old kid at a state meet inject into his behind a syringe full of something. He told me it was adrenaline. Possible? Don’t know but he went out and pulled 805 and then went screaming around the gym like a maniac. Guy shot himself about 2 years later. Truth is boys you are killing a sport that is a marginal sport at best, But a sport that at it’s core demands your best efforts. If your best efforts include gear you are fooling yourself.

Barry

Blah, blah, blah.

Crain competed in gear too. He has posted more times than I can count in opposition to RAW lifting.

You have no idea what you even speak of. You read something on “Dr. Squat’s” forum and we are supposed to take you seriously?

You’re a sad washed up angry little man.

You have no credibility. Nothing you could post at this point would make you look even remotely credible.

Run along now.

Nope. Not going away. Look I’ve posted right from the start my lifts, my name, where I live. Who are you? What are your lifts. Where is YOUR credibility?

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
mozhne wrote:
In 1983 I went to Austin Texas to watch the senior nationals. There was a lifter named Jeff Magruder (not sure of spelling) who benched something like 550 wearing just a singlet. Now that’s a bench. Dude had some serious muscle. Problem is that now a guy can come in and equal that lift without being equal to the lifter that made that lift.

Barry

No, the guy doesn’t equal that lift, because it’s a geared lift vs. a raw lift. They’re different competitions.

Shouldn’t you be out crushing the hopes and dreams of young athletes and telling people about how things were better in the old days? I have a rocking chair for you.

I reject that notion. Strength is strength. Geared lifting does not demonstrate true strength. Crushing dreams? These kids I am working with are working toward going to a Football Combine during the winter. Ain’t gonna be no bench shirts there I guarantee that. I’m training them for something real. Geared Powerlifting is a fantasy. BTW, I’ll take that Rocking Chair. No problem there bud, I’m worn out. If you actually worked out you’d know about that.

Barry