T Nation

Raw Milk: BUSTED!

I dislike bullies. I dislike them even more when it’s the government doing the bullying.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/raw_milk

Short version: Ontario farmers may well be the most heavily legislated in the country – perhaps even North America. Our government crawls up their asses about everything. It’s fucking obscene. Mom & Pop can’t sell home-made pies anymore. Dairy farmers aren’t allowed to make cheese. So a farmer named Schmidt finds a loophole in the milk laws: farmers can’t sell raw milk to other people, but a farmer can drink raw milk that his cow produces. The solution? Have people buy shares in Bessie.

Thing is, some bureaucrat really hates that a little dairy farmer is getting by with his sales of organic raw milk. So they had the cops raid his farm. It’s not the first time, either. This guy’s been targeted by the law a number of times in the last ten years – treated like he’s got a crack lab in the barn.

There’s a lot of room for debate about the benefits of raw milk vs. pasturized, and each side has its points. But this kind of government thuggery is insane – doubly so when you consider that the government (both federal and provincial) waste a huge amount of time trying to figure out how to keep farms from going under and losing the rural way of life. Here’s a clue: QUIT FUCKING LEGISLATING THEM TO DEATH.

[/rant]

I’m with ya, buddy. Down with the man who won’t let us drink organic, tested raw milk!

Curiously, would you say that marijuana is more tolerated than raw milk by the Canadian govt? That would be ironic.

well said, northcatt. if people want to drink organic raw milk, why do they need the government’s permission?

it seems like all too often our government spends so much time, effort, and money regulating the most ridiculous things… as if certain industries eed regulation and as if people need permission to do a certain thing.

seems like regulation of the milk industry benefits the government workers over at their respective departments in the ministry of agriculture a lot more than the farmers.

can you imagine… a POLICE RAID of a DAIRY FARM for selling UNREGULATED MILK? god forbid they should spend time on important things.

again, well said.

[quote]beebuddy wrote:
Curiously, would you say that marijuana is more tolerated than raw milk by the Canadian govt? That would be ironic.[/quote]

Yes. And don’t think that the irony (re: painful stupidity) of that has escaped my notice.

I love my country. I really do. I’m one of those rare hardcore Canadian patriots. But by God, my nation has its priorities bass ackwards. Sure, the government taxes the hell out of booze and cigarettes – but they’re still legal. Pot? It’s on the way. But bring up prohormones, ephedra, steroids, or gasp raw milk, and some pencil neck in a suit nearly falls out of their chair in horror.

Then millions of dollars are spent on studies as to why Canadians are slowly growing more obese, and why our health care system is growing increasingly strained.

Jesus. Reflection upon the stupid has given me a headache.

[quote]Northcott wrote:
beebuddy wrote:
Curiously, would you say that marijuana is more tolerated than raw milk by the Canadian govt? That would be ironic.

Yes. And don’t think that the irony (re: painful stupidity) of that has escaped my notice.

I love my country. I really do. I’m one of those rare hardcore Canadian patriots. But by God, my nation has its priorities bass ackwards. Sure, the government taxes the hell out of booze and cigarettes – but they’re still legal. Pot? It’s on the way. But bring up prohormones, ephedra, steroids, or gasp raw milk, and some pencil neck in a suit nearly falls out of their chair in horror.

Then millions of dollars are spent on studies as to why Canadians are slowly growing more obese, and why our health care system is growing increasingly strained.

Jesus. Reflection upon the stupid has given me a headache.

[/quote]

What is the government’s problem with raw milk?

The short version for lay-people, please?

yeah the feds busted an amish farm in michigan a couple of weeks ago. seized a their equipment. something like 3 farms out of business. really nice putting all those folks who actually work for a living out of work. tax dollars well spent.

[quote]harris447 wrote:
What is the government’s problem with raw milk?

The short version for lay-people, please?
[/quote]

Raw milk is Teh Evil. They like to haul out the scare tactics of salmonella poisoning, e-coli, etc. (“If you drink unpasturized milk, you run the risk of…”) People can make up their own minds about smoking, being lazy, drinking their faces off, and getting fat as houses, but apparently are utterly incapable of deciding whether or not they wish to risk drinking raw milk.

What they fail to mention is that raw milk, like any mammalian milk source, has properties that are pretty damned good at fighting off bacteria. Wallaby milk was recently found to be many times more potent as an antibiotic than anything we’ve got on the market as a drug. Scientists are currently studying it to try and come up with an adaptive antibiotic (iirc).

Not to mention that modern sanitation and testing methods are a far cry from what they were when they first came up with pasturization. It could be argued that even back then most health problems were from sloppy work, and health standards in the dairy industry did as much, or more, to curb that problem than super-heating the milk.

Agriculture is a really confusing topic in economics. This is because of “The Farmer’s Dilemna,” which has to do with their supply and demand. See, the problem is that we are too efficient of an economy, and if there wasn’t legislation left and right governing the sale of such things like milk, many farmers would go broke because the price would lower to such an extent that they wouldn’t be making profit. This is different from other products because agriculture is extremely elastic.

The Canadian government is doing a good thing by implementing legislation. Now, the next time you read a random article on the website: think twice before you get your panties in a not.

[quote]Contach wrote:
Agriculture is a really confusing topic in economics. This is because of “The Farmer’s Dilemna,” which has to do with their supply and demand. See, the problem is that we are too efficient of an economy, and if there wasn’t legislation left and right governing the sale of such things like milk, many farmers would go broke because the price would lower to such an extent that they wouldn’t be making profit. This is different from other products because agriculture is extremely elastic.

The Canadian government is doing a good thing by implementing legislation. Now, the next time you read a random article on the website: think twice before you get your panties in a not. [/quote]

…but the logic used to promote this type of policy is health-related and not economic.

Anyway, this legislation is obviously impeding the market and hence killing potential profits.

[quote]Contach wrote:
Agriculture is a really confusing topic in economics. This is because of “The Farmer’s Dilemna,” which has to do with their supply and demand. See, the problem is that we are too efficient of an economy, and if there wasn’t legislation left and right governing the sale of such things like milk, many farmers would go broke because the price would lower to such an extent that they wouldn’t be making profit. This is different from other products because agriculture is extremely elastic.

The Canadian government is doing a good thing by implementing legislation. Now, the next time you read a random article on the website: think twice before you get your panties in a not. [/quote]

So just because you said so… Where are your references, studies even a news article would be fine.

[quote]oztrav wrote:
So just because you said so… Where are your references, studies even a news article would be fine.
[/quote]

We can take his argument on logic. He is saying that farmers will go broke without this legislation. That’s nonsense, I don’t know about you, but I go broke when I am not allowed to sell my commodity.

Farm subsidies (which is what I think he is talking about) are one thing that criminalizing raw milk distribution has absolutely nothing to do with.

[quote]Contach wrote:
Agriculture is a really confusing topic in economics. This is because of “The Farmer’s Dilemna,” which has to do with their supply and demand. See, the problem is that we are too efficient of an economy, and if there wasn’t legislation left and right governing the sale of such things like milk, many farmers would go broke because the price would lower to such an extent that they wouldn’t be making profit. This is different from other products because agriculture is extremely elastic.

The Canadian government is doing a good thing by implementing legislation. Now, the next time you read a random article on the website: think twice before you get your panties in a not. [/quote]

Tell you what: I’ll untie that knot when you actually read the post you’re replying to, and construct an argument relevant to the topic at hand.

As has been pointed out, we’re talking about health legislation here, and the restriction of sale of product. If you would have actually given this thought before posting, you might have looked up the relative pricing on organic products and/or the costs for a consumer to become involved in Schmidt’s operation.

This attempt at legislation serves neither the health aspect (which they’re claiming) nor the economic aspect (which you pulled out as a convenient strawman).

If you’re going to get snotty with someone else about their perceived lack of thought on a topic, at least try not to make that mistake yourself.

I guess it all comes down to the nanny state.

Don’t drink raw milk. Don’t do drugs. Don’t use steroids. Big Mommy knows best.

  • POC

[quote]Northcott wrote:
Contach wrote:
Agriculture is a really confusing topic in economics. This is because of “The Farmer’s Dilemna,” which has to do with their supply and demand. See, the problem is that we are too efficient of an economy, and if there wasn’t legislation left and right governing the sale of such things like milk, many farmers would go broke because the price would lower to such an extent that they wouldn’t be making profit. This is different from other products because agriculture is extremely elastic.

The Canadian government is doing a good thing by implementing legislation. Now, the next time you read a random article on the website: think twice before you get your panties in a not.

Tell you what: I’ll untie that knot when you actually read the post you’re replying to, and construct an argument relevant to the topic at hand.

As has been pointed out, we’re talking about health legislation here, and the restriction of sale of product. If you would have actually given this thought before posting, you might have looked up the relative pricing on organic products and/or the costs for a consumer to become involved in Schmidt’s operation.

This attempt at legislation serves neither the health aspect (which they’re claiming) nor the economic aspect (which you pulled out as a convenient strawman).

If you’re going to get snotty with someone else about their perceived lack of thought on a topic, at least try not to make that mistake yourself.[/quote]

OK, OK, calm down, I agree with ya 100%, but lets get one thing straight, you can say shit, piss, fuck, cunt,cocksucker,motherfucker,and tits on T-Nation, but if you ever use the word "snotty" again, well tie your cows tits in a knot, and start a cottage cheese hemorrage, got it?!!

[quote]Contach wrote:
Agriculture is a really confusing topic in economics. This is because of “The Farmer’s Dilemna,” which has to do with their supply and demand. See, the problem is that we are too efficient of an economy, and if there wasn’t legislation left and right governing the sale of such things like milk, many farmers would go broke because the price would lower to such an extent that they wouldn’t be making profit. This is different from other products because agriculture is extremely elastic.

The Canadian government is doing a good thing by implementing legislation. Now, the next time you read a random article on the website: think twice before you get your panties in a not. [/quote]

This is an excellent point. If Milk was sold at market values instead of state mandated minimum prices it would drive many farmers out of business.

It would also be nice if the farmers got more of a share of the minimum price rather than the distributor taking advantage of it.

It is an interesting topic but I think it does not have much or anything to do with the witch hunt against raw milk.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Contach wrote:
Agriculture is a really confusing topic in economics. This is because of “The Farmer’s Dilemna,” which has to do with their supply and demand. See, the problem is that we are too efficient of an economy, and if there wasn’t legislation left and right governing the sale of such things like milk, many farmers would go broke because the price would lower to such an extent that they wouldn’t be making profit. This is different from other products because agriculture is extremely elastic.

The Canadian government is doing a good thing by implementing legislation. Now, the next time you read a random article on the website: think twice before you get your panties in a not.

This is an excellent point. If Milk was sold at market values instead of state mandated minimum prices it would drive many farmers out of business.

It would also be nice if the farmers got more of a share of the minimum price rather than the distributor taking advantage of it.

It is an interesting topic but I think it does not have much or anything to do with the witch hunt against raw milk.[/quote]

You know Zap, you are thinking clearly and you have a point here, but I beg to differ. I think there is actually a demand for non-mass-produced milk. I think that by virtue of being a small farmer that grass-feeds his cows you can actually charge more at a natural food store and turn a profit.

Anyway, I hope I’m right. I would like to see a resurgence in the American small farm and I see some niche markets opening up.

[quote]SLERG wrote:
OK, OK, calm down, I agree with ya 100%, but lets get one thing straight, you can say shit, piss, fuck, cunt,cocksucker,motherfucker,and tits on T-Nation, but if you ever use the word "snotty" again, well tie your cows tits in a knot, and start a cottage cheese hemorrage, got it?!![/quote]

How else would you describe a 155 pound school kid that cops that kind of attitude in a thread? :wink:

kinda funny…a guy cant buy tested raw milk because he may get sick from it .

but I can buy a pack of smokes without a problem . must be because smoking isnt as dangerous as drinking raw milk…yeah thats it .

haha that is because the gov hasnt taxed the ass out of raw milk as they have done with ciggies or alcohol, Why don’ t they just put a health warning on it and let people make their own decisions. Instead of treating everyone like retards