As raw lifter, what exercises are recommended for the me days? I have been using the following: Me Bench- 2 board, floor press, competition bench, close grip bench. for Me lower body deficit deadlift, good morning, competition stance box squat, competition form deadlift, and competion form squat. Is it ok that i rotate through such few exercise??
How long for each?
For a raw lifter, you should be doing the strict lifts as often as possible. Variations are best reserved for assistance work. That said, the occasional ME mesocycle with a variation won’t hurt.
[quote]animus wrote:
How long for each?
For a raw lifter, you should be doing the strict lifts as often as possible. Variations are best reserved for assistance work. That said, the occasional ME mesocycle with a variation won’t hurt.[/quote]
I run through each onece for 3 rep max, deload for a week, and then run the lifts again working for a 1 rep max
In my (relatively short, admittedly) experience running a conjugate periodization system as a raw powerlifter, I think you are much better off with as few variations to rotate through as possible. Personally, I think that three variations is a good number; you can always add chains, bands, a slingshot, or pausing to a variation to change it up a little bit without doing a whole new movement. I also tend to think that you should stay away from working up to a daily 1rm; this is more of my opinion than anything, but reps are for building strength, while singles are usually for showcasing strength.
Just keep in mind you are building your RAW strength. It’s a simple concept, but it is easily forgotten. Stick to what works for you.
[quote]kyushomaster wrote:
[quote]animus wrote:
How long for each?
For a raw lifter, you should be doing the strict lifts as often as possible. Variations are best reserved for assistance work. That said, the occasional ME mesocycle with a variation won’t hurt.[/quote]
I run through each onece for 3 rep max, deload for a week, and then run the lifts again working for a 1 rep max[/quote]
Wait, your set up is:
Week 1: 3RM
Week 2: Deload
Week 3: 1RM
Week 4: Deload ???
…that’s terribly inefficient. And you shouldn’t be going for new 1RM PRs each meso.
And I still don’t know how long you run each variation.
My advice: As a raw lifter, 9 months out of the year, use the strict lifts for your max work and use variations as accessory if you want to use them or for speed work. Three months out of the year, you can run variations as ME, do bodybuilding, run an Oly program, etc. Anything that’s a break from traditional PL.
There’s a great westside thread that was originally started by Storm the Beach. I would highly recommend looking through it.
james
[quote]animus wrote:
[quote]kyushomaster wrote:
[quote]animus wrote:
How long for each?
For a raw lifter, you should be doing the strict lifts as often as possible. Variations are best reserved for assistance work. That said, the occasional ME mesocycle with a variation won’t hurt.[/quote]
I run through each onece for 3 rep max, deload for a week, and then run the lifts again working for a 1 rep max[/quote]
Wait, your set up is:
Week 1: 3RM
Week 2: Deload
Week 3: 1RM
Week 4: Deload ???
…that’s terribly inefficient. And you shouldn’t be going for new 1RM PRs each meso.
And I still don’t know how long you run each variation.[/quote]
my setup looks like this
week 1 2 board 3rep max
week 2 floor press 3 rep max
week 3 close grip 3 rep max
week 4 regular bench 3 rep max
week 5 deload
then i start over using one rep maxes
[quote]animus wrote:
How long for each?
For a raw lifter, you should be doing the strict lifts as often as possible. Variations are best reserved for assistance work. That said, the occasional ME mesocycle with a variation won’t hurt.[/quote]
Just curious why you say this. This is somewhat to the contrary of the basis of the Conjugate system. If all you had to do was bench to drive your bench up, everybody would have a huge bench press. But we all know that’s not the case. Some people seem to be able to progress with that style of training but I’m not one of them.
OP - I’d say your ME movements are great. But personally I would prefer more variation in mine. No pin pulls? Just straight bar good mornings?
Do you have access to specialty bars? Safety squat bar / cambered bar?
[quote]frankjl wrote:
[quote]animus wrote:
How long for each?
For a raw lifter, you should be doing the strict lifts as often as possible. Variations are best reserved for assistance work. That said, the occasional ME mesocycle with a variation won’t hurt.[/quote]
Just curious why you say this. This is somewhat to the contrary of the basis of the Conjugate system. If all you had to do was bench to drive your bench up, everybody would have a huge bench press. But we all know that’s not the case. Some people seem to be able to progress with that style of training but I’m not one of them.
OP - I’d say your ME movements are great. But personally I would prefer more variation in mine. No pin pulls? Just straight bar good mornings?
Do you have access to specialty bars? Safety squat bar / cambered bar?[/quote]
Remember that Westside was designed for equipped lifters (and looks like he’s doing Westside). I’m not saying that it won’t work (although I’d keep lifts in rotation for longer than a week as a raw lifter), but raw lifting requires more practice on the competition lifts.
Think of it this way… On the competition lifts, you are training the skill. Your accessory work is what builds the lift / gets you to lift more. Either alone will not be enough. ME variants are useful at times, but if you’re only doing the strict lift 25% of the year and compete raw where the variants have significantly less carry-over than to the equipped lifts, then chances are you will be ill-prepared for the meet.
[quote]animus wrote:
Remember that Westside was designed for equipped lifters (and looks like he’s doing Westside). I’m not saying that it won’t work (although I’d keep lifts in rotation for longer than a week as a raw lifter), but raw lifting requires more practice on the competition lifts.
Think of it this way… On the competition lifts, you are training the skill. Your accessory work is what builds the lift / gets you to lift more. Either alone will not be enough. ME variants are useful at times, but if you’re only doing the strict lift 25% of the year and compete raw where the variants have significantly less carry-over than to the equipped lifts, then chances are you will be ill-prepared for the meet.[/quote]
In the beginning, gear wasn’t as extreme as it was now. It was like a tight pair of sweat pants. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen an Inzer Z Suit, but lifters would literally never train in them and just throw them on at the meet and get 60-100 lbs out of that and their knee wraps. The old Inzer blast shirts were closed back. It might take 20 minutes to get one on and you might get 15 pounds out of it. There wasn’t really a ‘groove’ to the shirt, so nobody bothered to train in them.
This was the context in which the West Side method was created. While gear had been invented, it was very much an after thought. I don’t understand why people think the West Side method was invented for equipped lifters? Raw or equipped, the principles are the exact same. Your exercise selection may (and should) differ, but the principle of conjugated periodization still exists. Max effort, dynamic effort and repeated effort, waves, switching up ME movements, etc, etc. The West Side method threads on this forum are gold.
I very much disagree that raw lifting requires more practice. But regardless, in the West Side method that’s one of the reasons for the DE work. However, I will say that one thing I wish I had done more when I was training for raw meets was actually do the competition lifts every now and then. If I had it to do again, I would just work up to a heavy single or double on DE day every 2-3 weeks if I were feeling good that day. This is especially important for those who haven’t figured out correlations between their ME lifts and their competition lifts.
When I stick with just benching, my comp lift goes down. I have had greater success using conjugate/concurrent training versus periodization.
What a timely thread… I am soon to make my first venture into conjugation as a raw only lifter. I was going to cycle ME lifts whilst making sure I did a regular bench and regular squat as my ME lift every third week.
[quote]vdizenzo wrote:
When I stick with just benching, my comp lift goes down. I have had greater success using conjugate/concurrent training versus periodization.[/quote]
How many total exercise would you recommend for a raw bencher using the conjugate system, and how often would the regular bench appear in the rotation in your opinion?
[quote]vdizenzo wrote:
When I stick with just benching, my comp lift goes down. I have had greater success using conjugate/concurrent training versus periodization.[/quote]
Have you noticed this throughout your lifting career, or was it something that came along as you grew more advanced?
[quote]kyushomaster wrote:
[quote]vdizenzo wrote:
When I stick with just benching, my comp lift goes down. I have had greater success using conjugate/concurrent training versus periodization.[/quote]
How many total exercise would you recommend for a raw bencher using the conjugate system, and how often would the regular bench appear in the rotation in your opinion?[/quote]
I like 5 exercises total in a bench session. If you are talking about how many bench exercises, I use 4 bench exercises and rotate them each week. I only regular bench maybe once in a 3 month meet prep cycle.
[quote]black_angus1 wrote:
[quote]vdizenzo wrote:
When I stick with just benching, my comp lift goes down. I have had greater success using conjugate/concurrent training versus periodization.[/quote]
Have you noticed this throughout your lifting career, or was it something that came along as you grew more advanced? [/quote]
GReat question, as I become more advanced.
[quote]vdizenzo wrote:
[quote]kyushomaster wrote:
[quote]vdizenzo wrote:
When I stick with just benching, my comp lift goes down. I have had greater success using conjugate/concurrent training versus periodization.[/quote]
How many total exercise would you recommend for a raw bencher using the conjugate system, and how often would the regular bench appear in the rotation in your opinion?[/quote]
I like 5 exercises total in a bench session. If you are talking about how many bench exercises, I use 4 bench exercises and rotate them each week. I only regular bench maybe once in a 3 month meet prep cycle.[/quote]
Do you generally work to a one rep max, or do you sometimes go for a triple? Is it all pre programmed or do you go by how you feel?
[quote]kyushomaster wrote:
[quote]vdizenzo wrote:
[quote]kyushomaster wrote:
[quote]vdizenzo wrote:
When I stick with just benching, my comp lift goes down. I have had greater success using conjugate/concurrent training versus periodization.[/quote]
How many total exercise would you recommend for a raw bencher using the conjugate system, and how often would the regular bench appear in the rotation in your opinion?[/quote]
I like 5 exercises total in a bench session. If you are talking about how many bench exercises, I use 4 bench exercises and rotate them each week. I only regular bench maybe once in a 3 month meet prep cycle.[/quote]
Do you generally work to a one rep max, or do you sometimes go for a triple? Is it all pre programmed or do you go by how you feel?[/quote]
I would always work to a single unless I felt really off that day. However, I am now working to triples to help improve my lagging lockout.
[quote]kyushomaster wrote:
As raw lifter, what exercises are recommended for the me days? I have been using the following: Me Bench- 2 board, floor press, competition bench, close grip bench. for Me lower body deficit deadlift, good morning, competition stance box squat, competition form deadlift, and competion form squat. Is it ok that i rotate through such few exercise??[/quote]
Why not simply do them all in one session if you have a designated bench and squat day?
A. Bench
B. CG bench
C. Floor press
- some BBing pump stuff
A. Squat
B. Deadlift / Rack pulls
C. Good mornings
- some BBing pump stuff
Rotate exercises as needed.