T Nation

Ravenous Metabolism...

Over the past 4 months of doing layer workouts ive gradually been able to up frequency bit by bit now and im now doing more training than i ever thought i could do without feeling horrendous. Strength is a bit stagnant so far BUT i do feel my body is changing for the better.

Anyway im now to the point where im training twice a day, 5 days a week (HFSW in the AM, Layer in the PM) and honestly my metabolism is absolutely through the roof. It has been getting higher and higher since i started using layers and im now at the point where im only 5’10" and 182lbs (probably 10-12% bf) but im eating 4000-4200 cals a day and not only not gaining weight but i could easily be downing an extra 500+ cals a day no problem (and thats not a complaint).

Has anyone else experienced this kind of metabolic kick up the ass from CTs work? Its costing me a fortune in food but in the long run, being able to maintain my weight of 182lbs on 4000+ cals a day can only be good :slight_smile:

I’m just wondering how your body is recovering if you are doing HFSW in the AM and a Layer workout in the PM. To me that is way to much to be doing.

[quote]jtbrown0511 wrote:
I’m just wondering how your body is recovering if you are doing HFSW in the AM and a Layer workout in the PM. To me that is way to much to be doing.[/quote]

The HSFW is not really strenuous, doing it primarily to drill technique in the big 3. For example, first 2 weeks are 3 x 5 @ 60% of 1RM for squat, bench and deadlift. I do 10mins mobility work beforehand and the sets take around 15mins. I find I leave the gym feeling better and with more energy than i went in, and carries on throughout the day.

My PM sessions might be a bit lower volume than most peoples layer workouts, it goes:
Activation lift (Push press or SGHP)
Ramp to 1RM
Max singles in 7minutes @ 90% ramp max
Accessory lift - Max reps in 5mins
Loaded carries - 3 x 1 minute rounds.

Its an experiment i wanted to try to help me really dial in my form on the big 3 before my first PL meet in january. Just done week 1 and even with a nasty 48hr cold/flu ive managed fine :slight_smile:

I would drop the two workouts in a day thing. Honestly you are not getting more out of your program. You’ve stated strength is stagnant. This means you are NOT progressing. Scale back volume until strength progressions can be had.

[quote]Jamesliftsheavy wrote:
I would drop the two workouts in a day thing. Honestly you are not getting more out of your program. You’ve stated strength is stagnant. This means you are NOT progressing. Scale back volume until strength progressions can be had.[/quote]

I agree. If the layer workout is done correctly there is no need to be doing two sessions in a day. Its not going to help progress and will actually hinder it more than likely.

I understand what you mean guys. But ive been doing the layer workouts now for 3/4 months with little/no strength progression. Its only the last week and a half or so the 2-a-day workouts have started. Oddly though the progression in terms of my physique has been good, legs are bigger, shoulders wider and waist has dropped a little so its a bit confusing if im honest.

sorry to interrupt.
since u have a strength competition, do not you not think that size is irrelevanr?
that being said, you neddneed to assess. your priorities and listen to those who will advise on such.
ifiam not mistaken, they dont grade u on size at a PL. meet

[quote]domcib wrote:
sorry to interrupt.
since u have a strength competition, do not you not think that size is irrelevanr?
that being said, you neddneed to assess. your priorities and listen to those who will advise on such.
ifiam not mistaken, they dont grade u on size at a PL. meet[/quote]

Thats the thing im not aiming for size. Im doing the layers more suited towards strength and im focussing on the big 3 with little to no isolation stuff and yet strength is pretty stagnant and yet my body comp is definetly improving. So its confusing me a bit

[quote]Trevshenko wrote:

[quote]domcib wrote:
sorry to interrupt.
since u have a strength competition, do not you not think that size is irrelevanr?
that being said, you neddneed to assess. your priorities and listen to those who will advise on such.
ifiam not mistaken, they dont grade u on size at a PL. meet[/quote]

Thats the thing im not aiming for size. Im doing the layers more suited towards strength and im focussing on the big 3 with little to no isolation stuff and yet strength is pretty stagnant and yet my body comp is definetly improving. So its confusing me a bit[/quote]
i will comment. take it with a grain of salt if u wish since i’m older and “not really in myprime” so to speak.

  1. im doing activate, ramp, density, carry. i am getting stronger, not much hypertrophy, but definitely stronger. seems like about every 2 weeks, im hitting a new pr in something. although i must say my bench hasnt moved in awhile. mentally i am more focused on squat, clean, sghp. dunno if that has something to do with it or not, but, thats how it is.
  2. maybe u ccan try taking out the hfs and that accesory work or whatever u called it.
  3. ct had some good stuff for hawaiitunya in one of the first forums here awile back. u may want to consider looking into that.
    4, sometimes less is more.
    i didnt realize how much work is involved in my current scheme until recently. i took a week off for business reasons. i cam back and started up. got a new pr in push press on the first day, but, i must say, after 4 days, i feel like ive been hit by a truck. so, maybe you just dont realize how much all this work is taking out of you.
    right now, you say, strength is most important, yet, it is stagnant. so, you have everything to gain, and nothing to lose, by reducing your workload. and maybe giving ct’s power lifting routine a try. he laid out a nice program for her from i think 4 weeks out or so.

i dont know xxxxxx about powerlifting, but as a former thrower, and throwing coach, 4 weeks out means you wont get any stronger, but, you can get more explosive, and faster, and more efficient. and thereby perform better. 4 weeks out was working on peak strength and speed, and explosiveness. it was 4 weeks of gearing up for the championship throw. getting sore and beat to death was completely out of the question. the hard work was already done. now it was time to fine tune and peak both physically and mentally.

i apologize for the lenghty post. i hope this helps you find your way.

[quote]domcib wrote:

[quote]Trevshenko wrote:

[quote]domcib wrote:
sorry to interrupt.
since u have a strength competition, do not you not think that size is irrelevanr?
that being said, you neddneed to assess. your priorities and listen to those who will advise on such.
ifiam not mistaken, they dont grade u on size at a PL. meet[/quote]

Thats the thing im not aiming for size. Im doing the layers more suited towards strength and im focussing on the big 3 with little to no isolation stuff and yet strength is pretty stagnant and yet my body comp is definetly improving. So its confusing me a bit[/quote]
i will comment. take it with a grain of salt if u wish since i’m older and “not really in myprime” so to speak.

  1. im doing activate, ramp, density, carry. i am getting stronger, not much hypertrophy, but definitely stronger. seems like about every 2 weeks, im hitting a new pr in something. although i must say my bench hasnt moved in awhile. mentally i am more focused on squat, clean, sghp. dunno if that has something to do with it or not, but, thats how it is.
  2. maybe u ccan try taking out the hfs and that accesory work or whatever u called it.
  3. ct had some good stuff for hawaiitunya in one of the first forums here awile back. u may want to consider looking into that.
    4, sometimes less is more.
    i didnt realize how much work is involved in my current scheme until recently. i took a week off for business reasons. i cam back and started up. got a new pr in push press on the first day, but, i must say, after 4 days, i feel like ive been hit by a truck. so, maybe you just dont realize how much all this work is taking out of you.
    right now, you say, strength is most important, yet, it is stagnant. so, you have everything to gain, and nothing to lose, by reducing your workload. and maybe giving ct’s power lifting routine a try. he laid out a nice program for her from i think 4 weeks out or so.

i dont know xxxxxx about powerlifting, but as a former thrower, and throwing coach, 4 weeks out means you wont get any stronger, but, you can get more explosive, and faster, and more efficient. and thereby perform better. 4 weeks out was working on peak strength and speed, and explosiveness. it was 4 weeks of gearing up for the championship throw. getting sore and beat to death was completely out of the question. the hard work was already done. now it was time to fine tune and peak both physically and mentally.

i apologize for the lenghty post. i hope this helps you find your way.[/quote]

Firstly, thank you for taking the time to help. I actually kind of took your advice before reading your post and i tried one of the workouts from that routine CT wrote for hawaiituna for deadlifts yesterday. got the triple ramp and sets of 3 (i prefer these to clusters) done in about 35 mins. stayed conservative and it felt good.

you may well be right in that im just not aware perhaps of how run down my body is. so im going to scrap the hfsw stuff and run that programme except with squats added in as i am doing a full meet. Ill probably go with 2 on 1 off to see if it makes a difference to my recovery and strength. thanks again for the input dom

5’10" 182 is not a powerlifting physique. the guys that are successful in the 181 class (not even sure that demarcation still exists) are much shorter. Since i doubt you have a plan for getting shorter, get bigger. Eat more. You said you could get away with eating more? DO. A lot more. Your strength will start going up. If you aren’t currently sleeping MORE than 8 hrs/night, cut your two a days in favor of more sleep.

Dom’s advice is solid. Eating more and sleeping more still applies :slight_smile:

[quote]cubuff2028 wrote:
5’10" 182 is not a powerlifting physique. the guys that are successful in the 181 class (not even sure that demarcation still exists) are much shorter. Since i doubt you have a plan for getting shorter, get bigger. Eat more. You said you could get away with eating more? DO. A lot more. Your strength will start going up. If you aren’t currently sleeping MORE than 8 hrs/night, cut your two a days in favor of more sleep.

Dom’s advice is solid. Eating more and sleeping more still applies :slight_smile: [/quote]

Thats a very fair point. May be id simply be better off post-poning my first comp and aiming for the 198 class instead? The 2 a days have been dropped now in favour of the powerlifting programme CT wrote for hawaiituna so fingers crossed im on the right track now

Another thing that’s often overlooked is stress. Meditation is good to help you relax & cope with stress better. The less stressful everything is to you the better. Listen to your body though. Sometimes rest will do you more good than anything. Hope that helps. I started meditating this year & can tell a difference in my recovery.

[quote]Trevshenko wrote:

[quote]cubuff2028 wrote:
5’10" 182 is not a powerlifting physique. the guys that are successful in the 181 class (not even sure that demarcation still exists) are much shorter. Since i doubt you have a plan for getting shorter, get bigger. Eat more. You said you could get away with eating more? DO. A lot more. Your strength will start going up. If you aren’t currently sleeping MORE than 8 hrs/night, cut your two a days in favor of more sleep.

Dom’s advice is solid. Eating more and sleeping more still applies :slight_smile: [/quote]

Thats a very fair point. May be id simply be better off post-poning my first comp and aiming for the 198 class instead? The 2 a days have been dropped now in favour of the powerlifting programme CT wrote for hawaiituna so fingers crossed im on the right track now[/quote]

sorry, i dont believe in that stuff. Go for it! competitive experience regardless of the outcome can only be attained by DOING IT. You now have a viable plan that has been given to you by an experienced coach(CT).
My old expression was, "paint the flag red, put your balls to the wall, and GO FOR IT!"
You cannot realize success until you have learned to deal with failure.

FTW and just do it. Nothing else matters. Just you and that bar that you are going to explode with. Fuck everybody and everything else.

[quote]domcib wrote:

[quote]Trevshenko wrote:

[quote]cubuff2028 wrote:
5’10" 182 is not a powerlifting physique. the guys that are successful in the 181 class (not even sure that demarcation still exists) are much shorter. Since i doubt you have a plan for getting shorter, get bigger. Eat more. You said you could get away with eating more? DO. A lot more. Your strength will start going up. If you aren’t currently sleeping MORE than 8 hrs/night, cut your two a days in favor of more sleep.

Dom’s advice is solid. Eating more and sleeping more still applies :slight_smile: [/quote]

Thats a very fair point. May be id simply be better off post-poning my first comp and aiming for the 198 class instead? The 2 a days have been dropped now in favour of the powerlifting programme CT wrote for hawaiituna so fingers crossed im on the right track now[/quote]

sorry, i dont believe in that stuff. Go for it! competitive experience regardless of the outcome can only be attained by DOING IT. You now have a viable plan that has been given to you by an experienced coach(CT).
My old expression was, "paint the flag red, put your balls to the wall, and GO FOR IT!"
You cannot realize success until you have learned to deal with failure.

FTW and just do it. Nothing else matters. Just you and that bar that you are going to explode with. Fuck everybody and everything else.
[/quote]

I love the attitude, and thank you for the motivation :slight_smile: Sadly money is also an issue regarding whether i enter the meet, im a student and moneys tight. Im hoping to scrape enough together for it. Id just hate to spend what for me is a lot of money on signing up to the fed etc and then not feel im fully prepared. Although then i guess there will never be a time when im fully prepared. I would want to go there and smash my old PBs and at the moment im in no position to do that, but hey 2 months on his programme could work wonders i guess!

[quote]sput79 wrote:
Another thing that’s often overlooked is stress. Meditation is good to help you relax & cope with stress better. The less stressful everything is to you the better. Listen to your body though. Sometimes rest will do you more good than anything. Hope that helps. I started meditating this year & can tell a difference in my recovery. [/quote]

This is so true. Its coming up to exam period which usually massively dents my training, but i only have 1 exam this semester and im coping with stress a little better than usual (im usually really bad for it). Meditation is something i always want to do, but every time i start i get frustrated as my mind wanders really bad (like i cant control it) and i end up throwing in the towel. I know thats all the more reason to stick with it, but i get frustrated easily with it lol

[quote]Trevshenko wrote:

[quote]sput79 wrote:
Another thing that’s often overlooked is stress. Meditation is good to help you relax & cope with stress better. The less stressful everything is to you the better. Listen to your body though. Sometimes rest will do you more good than anything. Hope that helps. I started meditating this year & can tell a difference in my recovery. [/quote]

This is so true. Its coming up to exam period which usually massively dents my training, but i only have 1 exam this semester and im coping with stress a little better than usual (im usually really bad for it). Meditation is something i always want to do, but every time i start i get frustrated as my mind wanders really bad (like i cant control it) and i end up throwing in the towel. I know thats all the more reason to stick with it, but i get frustrated easily with it lol[/quote]

try zen meditation. it is almost impossible to think of nothing. so think of 1 thing. 1 thing completely. like a quarter. focus on it. feel the ridges around the edge etc. at some point you will eventually be thinking of nothing. the “mu” i thi k it’s called.

[quote]Trevshenko wrote:

[quote]domcib wrote:

[quote]Trevshenko wrote:

[quote]cubuff2028 wrote:
5’10" 182 is not a powerlifting physique. the guys that are successful in the 181 class (not even sure that demarcation still exists) are much shorter. Since i doubt you have a plan for getting shorter, get bigger. Eat more. You said you could get away with eating more? DO. A lot more. Your strength will start going up. If you aren’t currently sleeping MORE than 8 hrs/night, cut your two a days in favor of more sleep.

Dom’s advice is solid. Eating more and sleeping more still applies :slight_smile: [/quote]

Thats a very fair point. May be id simply be better off post-poning my first comp and aiming for the 198 class instead? The 2 a days have been dropped now in favour of the powerlifting programme CT wrote for hawaiituna so fingers crossed im on the right track now[/quote]

sorry, i dont believe in that stuff. Go for it! competitive experience regardless of the outcome can only be attained by DOING IT. You now have a viable plan that has been given to you by an experienced coach(CT).
My old expression was, "paint the flag red, put your balls to the wall, and GO FOR IT!"
You cannot realize success until you have learned to deal with failure.

FTW and just do it. Nothing else matters. Just you and that bar that you are going to explode with. Fuck everybody and everything else.
[/quote]

I love the attitude, and thank you for the motivation :slight_smile: Sadly money is also an issue regarding whether i enter the meet, im a student and moneys tight. Im hoping to scrape enough together for it. Id just hate to spend what for me is a lot of money on signing up to the fed etc and then not feel im fully prepared. Although then i guess there will never be a time when im fully prepared. I would want to go there and smash my old PBs and at the moment im in no position to do that, but hey 2 months on his programme could work wonders i guess![/quote]
if money was an issue, then you should not have been talking about doing it in the first place.
stop wasting everyones time and get some balls.
get realistic. noone gives a shit about the boy who cried wolf. because they would kick the shit out of the wolf.
and remember this
"excuses are for losers"
so, go thru life doing the best you can. if you fuck up, you fuck up. there’s no need to put the blame, or excuse, on someone, or something else.
we all make our own choices. regardless of what we may try to convince ourselves, we make our own choices.
now stop your shit.
make a decision… whatever decision
and carry it out.
done
i’m going to watch a movie and go to bed

[quote]domcib wrote:

[quote]Trevshenko wrote:

[quote]cubuff2028 wrote:
5’10" 182 is not a powerlifting physique. the guys that are successful in the 181 class (not even sure that demarcation still exists) are much shorter. Since i doubt you have a plan for getting shorter, get bigger. Eat more. You said you could get away with eating more? DO. A lot more. Your strength will start going up. If you aren’t currently sleeping MORE than 8 hrs/night, cut your two a days in favor of more sleep.

Dom’s advice is solid. Eating more and sleeping more still applies :slight_smile: [/quote]

Thats a very fair point. May be id simply be better off post-poning my first comp and aiming for the 198 class instead? The 2 a days have been dropped now in favour of the powerlifting programme CT wrote for hawaiituna so fingers crossed im on the right track now[/quote]

sorry, i dont believe in that stuff. Go for it! competitive experience regardless of the outcome can only be attained by DOING IT. You now have a viable plan that has been given to you by an experienced coach(CT).
My old expression was, "paint the flag red, put your balls to the wall, and GO FOR IT!"
You cannot realize success until you have learned to deal with failure.

FTW and just do it. Nothing else matters. Just you and that bar that you are going to explode with. Fuck everybody and everything else.
[/quote]

^ Right. No reason to postpone. Just aim to get as strong as possible without worrying about weight class at all right now. Bigger isn’t always stronger, but it usually is–so much easier to increase your big 3 when allowing for bodyweight increase. Your target weight class to be competitive may be 198 or even greater. Cross that bridge when you come to it.

hey tom
i just found and read a post umade in august.
you are 21, in school, and new to this stuff.
correct?