Ive been thinking about rate of progression. Progressing too fast is not a good idea. The body does not like to make gains fast (beyond the beginner level.) So how much weight do you guys find you can add to the main lifts (bench,press,deadlift and squat) in a year?
5-10 lbs per week is 260-520 lbs to a lift in a year!!! This is obviously ridiculous and Impossible for anyone.
5-10 lbs per month is 60- 120 lbs on a lift in a year. I feel that is a lot for a person who has been lifting for years.
Im thinking more along the lines of 30 lbs on bench/press and 60lbs on squat/deads in a year at most.
[quote]ANIMAL M0THER wrote:
Ive been thinking about rate of progression. Progressing too fast is not a good idea. The body does not like to make gains fast (beyond the beginner level.) So how much weight do you guys find you can add to the main lifts (bench,press,deadlift and squat) in a year?
5-10 lbs per week is 260-520 lbs to a lift in a year!!! This is obviously ridiculous and Impossible for anyone.
5-10 lbs per month is 60- 120 lbs on a lift in a year. I feel that is a lot for a person who has been lifting for years.
Im thinking more along the lines of 30 lbs on bench/press and 60lbs on squat/deads in a year at most.[/quote]
I have numerous problems with your assumptions. You say that progressing too fast is not a good idea, yet I would argue that you should progress as fast as possible. 5-10 lbs per month is well doable for many people. From Sept 2013 to May 2014, I added 35 lbs to my bench, so that is beyond what you claim is doable in a year. My friend added 80 lbs to his squat from a comp in Feb to one in Nov. Many on here have added decent amounts in similar timeframes.
Edit: accidentally said may 2015, but obviously that couldn’t be right.
[quote]ANIMAL M0THER wrote:
Ive been thinking about rate of progression. Progressing too fast is not a good idea. The body does not like to make gains fast (beyond the beginner level.) So how much weight do you guys find you can add to the main lifts (bench,press,deadlift and squat) in a year?
5-10 lbs per week is 260-520 lbs to a lift in a year!!! This is obviously ridiculous and Impossible for anyone.
5-10 lbs per month is 60- 120 lbs on a lift in a year. I feel that is a lot for a person who has been lifting for years.
Im thinking more along the lines of 30 lbs on bench/press and 60lbs on squat/deads in a year at most.[/quote]
I have numerous problems with your assumptions. You say that progressing too fast is not a good idea, yet I would argue that you should progress as fast as possible. 5-10 lbs per month is well doable for many people. From Sept 2013 to May 2015, I added 35 lbs to my bench, so that is beyond what you claim is doable in a year. My friend added 80 lbs to his squat from a comp in Feb to one in Nov. Many on here have added decent amounts in similar timeframes. [/quote]
Unless I missed something, he said 30lbs on bench and 60 on squat in a year. You added 35lbs to your bench in almost two years and your buddy added 80 in 10 months. That’s right in line with his beliefs, isn’t it?
[quote]ANIMAL M0THER wrote:
Ive been thinking about rate of progression. Progressing too fast is not a good idea. The body does not like to make gains fast (beyond the beginner level.) So how much weight do you guys find you can add to the main lifts (bench,press,deadlift and squat) in a year?
[/quote]
The more I read about legitimate, anecdotal experiences in the gym, the more I become convinced that these cliche, hard and fast rules really don’t apply to everyone.
I don’t know that there is an answer. There are probably too many variables, because everyone’s body is different. On top of that, you have people of a unique physiology who have different rest, sleep, dietary and activity level preferences, along with the possibility of use (or lack thereof) of various supplements (we’ll go with legal just for the sake of argument here). All of those can affect gains in a calendar year.
[quote]JR249 wrote:
I don’t know that there is an answer. There are probably too many variables, because everyone’s body is different. On top of that, you have people of a unique physiology who have different rest, sleep, dietary and activity level preferences, along with the possibility of use (or lack thereof) of various supplements (we’ll go with legal just for the sake of argument here). All of those can affect gains in a calendar year.
[/quote]
This
Unless I missed something, he said 30lbs on bench and 60 on squat in a year. You added 35lbs to your bench in almost two years and your buddy added 80 in 10 months. That’s right in line with his beliefs, isn’t it?[/quote]
Clearly I meant 2014, since it isn’t May 2015 yet. so 35 lb in 8 months from 315 to 350 at BW 150ish. Buddy got 80 on squat in about 8.5 months, He said “at most” 30/60, and both are far more, and not from beginner gains.
Unless I missed something, he said 30lbs on bench and 60 on squat in a year. You added 35lbs to your bench in almost two years and your buddy added 80 in 10 months. That’s right in line with his beliefs, isn’t it?[/quote]
Clearly I meant 2014, since it isn’t May 2015 yet. so 35 lb in 8 months from 315 to 350 at BW 150ish. Buddy got 80 on squat in about 8.5 months, He said “at most” 30/60, and both are far more, and not from beginner gains. [/quote]
I did in fact miss the “May”. My bad. What was your bench progress the rest of those four months? Or you buddy’s? Those are both impressive gains (obviously), but they’re still right in line with what the op wrote. And, I don’t think he wrote them as concrete rules, more of general guidelines to acknowledge that one is actually progressing past the initial beginner stage. Adding 60 lbs and/or 120lbs to ones bench and squat in two years is pretty damn good.
Unless I missed something, he said 30lbs on bench and 60 on squat in a year. You added 35lbs to your bench in almost two years and your buddy added 80 in 10 months. That’s right in line with his beliefs, isn’t it?[/quote]
Clearly I meant 2014, since it isn’t May 2015 yet. so 35 lb in 8 months from 315 to 350 at BW 150ish. Buddy got 80 on squat in about 8.5 months, He said “at most” 30/60, and both are far more, and not from beginner gains. [/quote]
Out of curiosity, what progression plan did you use to achieve that?
Unless I missed something, he said 30lbs on bench and 60 on squat in a year. You added 35lbs to your bench in almost two years and your buddy added 80 in 10 months. That’s right in line with his beliefs, isn’t it?[/quote]
Clearly I meant 2014, since it isn’t May 2015 yet. so 35 lb in 8 months from 315 to 350 at BW 150ish. Buddy got 80 on squat in about 8.5 months, He said “at most” 30/60, and both are far more, and not from beginner gains. [/quote]
Out of curiosity, what progression plan did you use to achieve that?[/quote]
I was doing a modified 5/3/1 at the time, and my friend took his squat from 405 to 485 doing Texas method (mostly)
[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:
Progression is only linear for a short period of a lifter’s lifting life. After that it’s going to depend a ton on the starting point.[/quote]
I would argue that it’s linear for a short period of time only if we measure weight lifted as “progress”. As I get further along in my training, I still progress every training session, just not necessarily in weight. Most people know I am big on range of motion progression training, wherein I will keep the weight the same by move just a little bit further each session. Other types of progress could be speed lifted, rest time between sets, amount of fatigue before training, etc etc.
[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:
Progression is only linear for a short period of a lifter’s lifting life. After that it’s going to depend a ton on the starting point.[/quote]
I would argue that it’s linear for a short period of time only if we measure weight lifted as “progress”. As I get further along in my training, I still progress every training session, just not necessarily in weight. Most people know I am big on range of motion progression training, wherein I will keep the weight the same by move just a little bit further each session. Other types of progress could be speed lifted, rest time between sets, amount of fatigue before training, etc etc.
It’s the little victories.[/quote]
Meh, I take your point, but even that is not “linear,” strictly speaking. “linear” is that period where you’re increasing at a set rate each week/month, typically the “5lbs/workout” or whatever that’s defined by the increments of weight increase we can make with our weight sets. What you’re describing is just consistent progress, which I totally concede that you can continually make.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
What was your bench progress the rest of those four months? Or you buddy’s? [/quote]
After that max in May, I tweaked my shoulder(not lifting) and then regressed, and then started building back up in Sept. Just before that 350 max, my best rep maxes were 320 for a single set of 3, and 305 for a single set of 4. Since starting back up in Sept, I have hit 335 for 3, 3, 2 as well as 320 for 5, 4, 4 and 300 for 7, 6, 6 as a rep comparison. My buddy hasn’t maxed since the Nov comp, and is doing lower intensity, higher volume.
[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:
Meh, I take your point, but even that is not “linear,” strictly speaking. “linear” is that period where you’re increasing at a set rate each week/month, typically the “5lbs/workout” or whatever that’s defined by the increments of weight increase we can make with our weight sets. What you’re describing is just consistent progress, which I totally concede that you can continually make.[/quote]
If I am moving the ROM .5" each week, isn’t that a set rate?
[quote]ANIMAL M0THER wrote:
Ive been thinking about rate of progression. Progressing too fast is not a good idea. The body does not like to make gains fast (beyond the beginner level.) So how much weight do you guys find you can add to the main lifts (bench,press,deadlift and squat) in a year?[/quote]
The more I read about legitimate, anecdotal experiences in the gym, the more I become convinced that these cliche, hard and fast rules really don’t apply to everyone.
I don’t know that there is an answer. There are probably too many variables, because everyone’s body is different.[/quote]
This. Not only individual differences, but training methods are a huge factor. Strength can definitely be increased a large amount in a short amount of time under the right circumstances.
Dave Tate has talked about tweaking guys technique and putting 50+ pounds on their bench press in six weeks. Thibaudeau did a “high pull blitz” specialization and added 55 kilos in under three weeks. Dan John said his thick bar deadlift went from 265 to 315 in 40 days with the “40 day workout” (another form of specialization).
This. Not only individual differences, but training methods are a huge factor. Strength can definitely be increased a large amount in a short amount of time under the right circumstances.
Dave Tate has talked about tweaking guys technique and putting 50+ pounds on their bench press in six weeks. Thibaudeau did a “high pull blitz” specialization and added 55 kilos in under three weeks. Dan John said his thick bar deadlift went from 265 to 315 in 40 days with the “40 day workout” (another form of specialization).[/quote]
I feel like it becomes important in these instances to not necessarily relate “weight lifted” with “strength increased”. Just like you mentioned, a lot of times it can be more about perfecting technique, recruiting more muscles, etc etc. Strength definitely goes up as well, but instead of it being “got 50lbs stronger on bench” it can be more like “got 15lbs stronger and 35lbs better on bench”.
In my own training, I have sessions where the goal is “get stronger” and others where the goal is “get better” in order to mentally make this distinction.
I feel like it becomes important in these instances to not necessarily relate “weight lifted” with “strength increased”. Just like you mentioned, a lot of times it can be more about perfecting technique, recruiting more muscles, etc etc. Strength definitely goes up as well, but instead of it being “got 50lbs stronger on bench” it can be more like “got 15lbs stronger and 35lbs better on bench”.
In my own training, I have sessions where the goal is “get stronger” and others where the goal is “get better” in order to mentally make this distinction.[/quote]
Worth repeating! Watching your video of atlas stones, and remembering my first couple times of myself trying them, I didn’t get stronger on the stones, I got better.
My main problem with the original post is the idea that “Progressing too fast is not a good idea. The body does not like to make gains fast (beyond the beginner level.)”
I’d at least disagree with the OP’s estimated numbers, just because personally (drug free incase that matters) I’ve added 132lbs onto my squat, 110lbs onto my deadlift and 44lbs onto my bench from January 2014 to now (and the bench was also from touch and go to paused competition so arguably more). Having said that I suppose it depends on what you classify as beginner/intermediate as to whether my increases would count.
Obviously this can’t go on forever and the better you get the slower they will be, so combining that with individual differences in strength levels, natural ability, training styles, effort etc it’s a pretty hard question to answer.
Anyway it shouldn’t really matter, as shouldn’t you be trying to increase as much as you personally can and not care what others have to say about it/not let others limit you? Or is it simply a curiosity thing?
I wouldn’t say progression to fast is never a good thing. We all know the importance of consistency. Let’s say a lifter has been slowly making progress on his lifts, maybe almost stagnant for a while, then boom he starts to make quick progress on his lifts for a while in a short amount of time. Would you say that is quick progress or would you say that all the work while stagnant finally paid off? The point I am trying to make is be consistent and BUST your ass in the gym and go with the flow man.
[quote]Ecchastang wrote:
Worth repeating! Watching your video of atlas stones, and remembering my first couple times of myself trying them, I didn’t get stronger on the stones, I got better.
My main problem with the original post is the idea that “Progressing too fast is not a good idea. The body does not like to make gains fast (beyond the beginner level.)”
[/quote]
Thanks man. Your comment about the stones also points out one of the major reasons that “beginner gains” are such a thing. When you start from zero, you quickly make progress. Once you have a handle on the basics, it’s a little harder to make that rapid progress.
And I agree with you, it’s best to progress as fast as you can. The body will put on the breaks when it’s ready.