Although I spent a few months in my 20s I playing around with curls and bench presses, I didn’t “train” in a thought-out-manner until 44.
Does the progress I describe a few messages above look to be on-track?
[quote]pel wrote:
I’m 48. I didnt really get into serious gym work till I was 45. I’m your classic hard gainer: 6’2" I never weighed more than 80k even in my 20s. I always assumed I had the wrong physique to muscle up. …[/quote]
I should have mentioned that I was never athletic, and didn’t start working out at all (and then only sporadically) in my late 30s. Serious disciplined lifting started around 41 (after an entire year of due to a car accident).
So I still think of my gains as “newbie gains.” I know I’m still a novice at this.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Professor X wrote:
But how old someone is cannot be dismissed. Even if age is independent of metabolic rates - age has a pretty big role in recovery times, inuries, and gains.
That is not to say a sedentary lifestyle doesn’t have an effect on those issues as well.
[/quote]
Yeah I agree and I think the test population to look at is not people who have sedentary lifestyles and put on weight/lose muscle, but those who have been consistently active and fit over the decades and who can therefore compare gains at different times. At my gym I have mates my age who got their muscle bulk in their 20s and have maintained it, with minor varaitions, into their late 30s without any problem. But I also know guys who intermittently give up weight training to run marathons or do kick boxing that trims them right down. They certainly say bulking up again in their late 30s and 40s is a lot harder that it was for them before.
What i notice is that muscle tone is different. And it doesnt stay as long. If a back injury keeps me out of the weights room for a few weeks the kilos drop off me. This didnt happen last time I muscled up, in the my 30s.
[quote]vroom wrote:
Okay, I’m tired of looking in this section and having it make me feel like a geriatric.
For those of us over 35 and NOT on HRT or AAS, what type of gains are you making and how are you going about achieving them?[/quote]
Vroom,
Funny you started this thread. Just yesterday is went right past the Over 35 forum for the same reason; blood work, HRT, how to deal with slow bowels…blah, blah, blah. It’s like a bunch of old ladies complaining. (I know, wait until I have slow moving bowels and have to post)
At 42 I’ve incorporated the following (things I never really considered prior to finding this site)
-incorporating 5x5 routines and X-Reps
-more time off between work out days, to let my body recover (which is hard because I like keeping the psychological momentum of being in the gym every day)
-DL/Squats -that’s right, I never really utilized these movements in the past
-jumping up my calories. I was really lacking in this area
-one day a week I work core movements exclusively
-Supplements -particularly fish oil. I have really noticed an effect on my recovery time
In the last month and a half I’ve gained about 2 lbs while staying relatively lean (I was off for about 4 months so I attribute some of this to muscle memory). I’ve made steady gains in strength, and I feel more fit overall. I believe I’m on par or possible slightly ahead of where I was in my mid-30’s and fully expect to be beyond where I was in my mid-30?s by year end.
[quote]rugbyhit wrote:
-more time off between work out days, to let my body recover (which is hard because I like keeping the psychological momentum of being in the gym every day)[/quote]
So do I. I hate not going into the gym. So I do core stuff every day that I am not weight training. The core work is all dynamic stretching/pilates/swiss ball type stuff. I’m careful not to start turning it into light cardio workouts. (I do other weight bearing core exercises on weights room days).
But without it I would be screwed because… and this is that age thing again… I need to work at my flexibility - but as a result I am way more agile and resistant to strains than I have been since I was 25.
[quote]-DL/Squats -that’s right, I never really utilized these movements in the past
[/quote]
Dont you just love finding more exercises to do?! I really love all the big Olympic lifts now! Christ its a nice change after perecting isolation exercises!
HI Dancar, it sounds like you are on pretty much the same path as me. And if you have added 13 lbs thats about 8% of your starting body weight. Not bad I think.
[quote]dancar wrote:
While much of that gain is undeniabley muscle in the upper torso & arms, I’m also getting some fat returning my mid-section.[/quote]
Well, JB says thats inevitable in the book and that any mass calorie intake leads to that and has to be cut later. The obvious age problem is that you might find the muscle gets cut faster than the fat. Personally, if I have to make a choice, its more important to me to look good in a shirt than out of it (though I am one of those natural skinnies who has never had much excess weight - much to my partner’s annoyance).
I think we are going to have to sign up for the ‘S to B’ forum if we are going to get that information. (Not that I have any objection to doing this.)
[quote]dancar wrote:
I’m 44 and 6’11.[/quote]
…are you really six foot eleven?!
I missed this thread, 45 and been training for over 20 years. switched to strength training couple of years ago, more pl and that’s where i’ve put on the mass. strength is increasing gradually. I take awhile to warm up before doing work sets, my training partner is 27 and he can get right to it, but he’s patient with me.
I have to watch nutrition carefully, even thou i don’t have to worry about BF to much because my job is very active. Overall i’m happy with my progress. I just listen to my body and if i’m fatigued or feel any type of pain, i don’t train at all, learned that the hard way when i first started out
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1183548
I like what the original poster on this one said. Kind of pertains to this thread
[quote]michaelmr wrote:
I missed this thread, 45 and been training for over 20 years. switched to strength training couple of years ago, more pl and that’s where i’ve put on the mass. strength is increasing gradually. I take awhile to warm up before doing work sets, my training partner is 27 and he can get right to it, but he’s patient with me.
I have to watch nutrition carefully, even thou i don’t have to worry about BF to much because my job is very active. Overall i’m happy with my progress. I just listen to my body and if i’m fatigued or feel any type of pain, i don’t train at all, learned that the hard way when i first started out[/quote]
Don’t take this the wrong way, by why would you think that “gaining muscle” is a different process than “strength training”? I train to get stronger. I eat to get bigger. That is all there is to it. I am always wondering when people started seperating the two.
NO, i didn’t take it the wrong way, and you are right, i should have worded it better. 75% of the battle is nutrition, you want to get bigger, eat. And your right about separating the two, we all go to the gym to get stronger and bigger.
I should have been more clear, i never trained in the low rep (1-3) out of fear of hurting myself until i said screw it i’m trying, that’s when i switched to PL with a lot of accessory/supplemental work.
I train 90% 1rm or above a couple times a week and that’s what is working for me. So basically after years of not getting stronger or bigger this is working.
So that’s why i called it strength training, because after years of not getting stronger, i finally am hence strength training, a bad on my part.
we learn from out mistakes and experiences.
Maybe I shouldn’t have limited this to natural only? Is just about everyone around here on something? 
I’m not against turning to assistance, but it certainly makes it difficult for a natural trainee with fading test levels to compare progress and programs.
It’s reassuring to see others talking about ongoing progress. I think figuring out how to keep on making progress with low T would be helpful in general.
You’d probably be better off to have done so before moving to some type of assistance… at least that’s my guess.
[quote]vroom wrote:
I suppose I can outline what I’m doing these days as well…
I’m at the gym just about every day, though I do throw in the odd light day or cardio day depending on the previous few days and how I’m feeling.
[/quote]
Just someting to think about. One of the other guys mentioned leaving more time between workouts. I’m 42 and find that I do best (actually did years ago when I was training the first time as well) training each bodypart directly, HARD, once in seven days. I work back, bi’s and abs on Thursday, chest tri’s and shoulders on Saturday and quads, hams and calves on Monday then leaving two days after legs for recovery.
I never do cardio the day of or the day after legs. I do work very hard. I also workout in my basement which for me makes it easier to stay motivated. I can’t do commercial gyms anymore. I spent way less than 2 grand on some well thought out equipment and for me my own house is better. In any case, to my way of thinking, less is more.
Recovery is every bit as important as moving the weights and nutrition and I suspect it will be even more so as I get older…
–Tiribulus->
[quote]clanduncan wrote:
Being over forty the gains in lean muscle mass is real slow. I think has something to do with the amount of food I can eat before it ends up around my gut. If I could eat 5000 calories a day then I believe my mass would increase at a good rate.
I am now into my second week of waterburys WHFS training program. The amount of days and also two a days seems like they are going to kick my ass. Hope my body can take this kind of abuse. Will be watching my caloric intake really closely and will be making sure my body get enough sleep. hope to see good gains out of this program… cd[/quote]
I just started Waterburys WHFS this week. I just finished 16 months of JB Scrawny to Brawny workouts.
I have had good gains with JB program and try and eat accordingly. Eating is the hardest part. I would love to hear how you progress. I am going to track it. Took pics and measurements and will post at the end of 8 weeks.
[quote]vroom wrote:
Maybe I shouldn’t have limited this to natural only? Is just about everyone around here on something?
I’m not against turning to assistance, but it certainly makes it difficult for a natural trainee with fading test levels to compare progress and programs.
It’s reassuring to see others talking about ongoing progress. I think figuring out how to keep on making progress with low T would be helpful in general.
You’d probably be better off to have done so before moving to some type of assistance… at least that’s my guess.[/quote]
vroom,
Stay natural, the gains are slow but they do come. I’m 43 and stronger than I was when I was 20. But then I wasn’t dedicated then either. I have learned more from JB with precision nutrition. Eating right is the biggest battle.
I buy a truck load of stuff from Biotest and Alpha Male tops my list. I wish I knew what I know now when I was in High School would have been a running back instead of a wide receiver.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I know guys in their late twenties who are becoming slugs. They are gaining fat and losing any muscle they had before. It isn’t because of old age. It is because they don’t do shit anymore. Most people are fairly active (or at least they used to be) in high school. After that, unless they are serious weight lifters, most just take up residence behind a desk all day and use “walking to the car” as their only exercise. Is it really a surprise that someone like that loses muscle mass as they get older? Is it really because muscle just disappears for no damn reason (let’s not forget about the drop in testosterone)?
I know guys who are middle aged who look better than most people on this site. They stay active. They aren’t shrinking and becoming obese slowly. they may have to work harder at it the more their lives slow down, but I honestly believe that blaming “age” for why your stomach is now hanging over your belt is just a cop out. It isn’t like it was the past 15 years of drinking beer on the couch and being witness to every single late night tv showing that did it to you, is it?[/quote]
Nail on the head on this one.
I’ll be 47 next month and thankfully have been consistent with my training over the years. The biggest mistakes I’ve made were related to cardio and over doing it a little in the late 80’s and early 90’s. It’s amazing as I get older how much attention I seem to get about the shape I’m in. I don’t really think much about it because it’s something I’ve done most of my life.
As a young man I think it was maybe noticed but no one seemed to make such a big deal about it. After about 41 or 42 I started getting more and more comments about my physique and training. Although some should probably have been discounted since they were made by people my age who have trouble cutting the grass without resting, I think most people (average) tend to think my level of training is abnormal and just don’t understand it.
I can only imagine that I’ll enjoy the responses more as I round the bend of 50. I’m actually kind of looking forward to it.
[quote]michaelmr wrote:
NO, i didn’t take it the wrong way, and you are right, i should have worded it better. 75% of the battle is nutrition, you want to get bigger, eat. And your right about separating the two, we all go to the gym to get stronger and bigger.
I should have been more clear, i never trained in the low rep (1-3) out of fear of hurting myself until i said screw it i’m trying, that’s when i switched to PL with a lot of accessory/supplemental work.
I train 90% 1rm or above a couple times a week and that’s what is working for me. So basically after years of not getting stronger or bigger this is working.
So that’s why i called it strength training, because after years of not getting stronger, i finally am hence strength training, a bad on my part.
we learn from out mistakes and experiences.[/quote]
I think this is fairly common. I see middle age guys everyday doing the same workout they did two years ago. Very little weight, twenty to twenty five reps(not kidding)and most with bad form on top of that. Most look the same or worse than they did years ago and blame it all on age. I think the ones who wind up with injuries get them from simple overuse, not too much weight (far from it).
Man,
Lots of great feedback/comments on this one.
My 3 main factors are:
1)Diet & Nutrition - Lifestyle change is/was the only way to look at for me.
2)Motivation - If I don’t push myself - who will?
3)Recovery Time - Gotta take at least 48 hours between work outs. And always try to get 7 - 8 hours sleep.
I’ve been working at it for just over three years and have taken 2 inches off my waist, added 1.5" to my thighs, 1" to chest and 1/2" to my arms.
Don’t know if that’s big news as far as gains - but I like what I see in the mirror better than I did a few years earlier!
I’m 44.
[quote]tadolfi wrote:
Man,
Lots of great feedback/comments on this one.
My 3 main factors are:
1)Diet & Nutrition - Lifestyle change is/was the only way to look at for me.
2)Motivation - If I don’t push myself - who will?
3)Recovery Time - Gotta take at least 48 hours between work outs. And always try to get 7 - 8 hours sleep.
I’ve been working at it for just over three years and have taken 2 inches off my waist, added 1.5" to my thighs, 1" to chest and 1/2" to my arms.
Don’t know if that’s big news as far as gains - but I like what I see in the mirror better than I did a few years earlier!
I’m 44.
[/quote]
Tadolfi,
Those three main factors hit the nail on the head.I think you made some good gains.Keep hammering away bro!TRAIN HARD! Jimmy T
Great thresd. I am about three or four months out now from what I consider my “peak” which was about 8 years ago at 42.
I can’t squat like I used to, but I am substituting trap bar squats, and I expect to pass my old numbers by Xmas.
To vroom’s original question, “Rate of Gain?” I think that I will have real answer for me, at least, next year.
Once I hit my old numbers, I will draw a line in the sand, or more accurately, the workout log. It will be interesting to compare progress at 51 vs 42.
Based on what I am seeing this summer, I don’t think there will be a decrease at all.
For what it’s worth… I’m 50 going on 51. Been lifting for, well, forever.
I’m not relly seeing much of a falloff in strength or size. I carry more bodyfat the older I get, but my strength keeps going up. I change out excercises a lot more now than I used to, and I workout only three times a week, every other day. I had to drop my training frequency down to this because I don’t recover as easily as I once did as a younger lad. My aerobic capacity has also dropped off. I used AAS’s for two years during my late forties (MAG-10) and made the biggest gains ever. I’m only taking Alpha Male, spike as a pre-workout stimulant and creatine in cycles. I benefitted from getting older because the drop off in my metabolism helped me to maintain more size (and strength).
I am not worried about aging as much now because I’ve seen that it hasn’t hurt my lifting much at all. In fact, I truly believe lifting has kept me from aging, when I compare myself to others my age. As far as rate of gains, that has slowed year by year, but the gains keep coming. That is all I care about.