T Nation

Raping Wendler

Real cool facebook convo going on about this. Wendler is handling it like a man and not being a douche about it. I think he should get madder but thats me.

Basically some clown made an APP for 5/3/1 which is basically just a calculator that doesnt work. He is using Wendler’s name and the 5/3/1 name and selling it.

from facebook.

“Imitation is most sincere form of flattery.”

Dibs on Poliquin

[quote]SSC wrote:
“Imitation is most sincere form of flattery.”[/quote]
If Wendler doesn’t like apps and has never made one for the 5/3/1 template, how is this a form of imitation?

I did think of a question; if Wendler has such a problem with this, surely he has trademarked his 5/3/1 system to some capacity and can get this removed.

If not, it’s his own fault.

[quote]SSC wrote:
I did think of a question; if Wendler has such a problem with this, surely he has trademarked his 5/3/1 system to some capacity and can get this removed.

If not, it’s his own fault.[/quote]

Yeah, that was my first thought also. Doesn’t he own the 5/3/1 concept? It’s intellectual property, like song lyrics or KFC’s secret recipe. Except that this is a recipe for success instead of fried chicken. I don’t know what the process is like to gain any and all publishing rights to this program, but I can’t imagine it’s all that difficult.

It’s reassuring to see him stick by his guns on this issue. I’d never really thought about a Wendler app, but it DOES make sense since there’s a little bit of calculating percentages involved. But kind of along the lines he followed in his response, part of it is writing that shit down and figuring out what the numbers are yourself and testing yourself properly to have a good starting point to work from. I haven’t followed his program for about a year now, but I used to swear by it (and still do, I’m just focusing more on wave loading with weights close to the max that I can accelerate with) and when I followed it one of the things that happened was that I was constantly thinking in my head when I was bored at work or something about what the numbers were for whatever lift was up that day.

It just kept me that much more motivated to get in the gym and bang that shit out with some real intensity. It keeps it in your mind just a little more when it isn’t just all preordained for you by some dumb fucking app that a goddamned little runt with the moral code of a fucking barn owl.

“Obsession is the mortal enemy of apathy.” -DB Cooper

Juliete Deanes comment is pretty damn witty.

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
Juliete Deanes comment is pretty damn witty.
[/quote]

Indeed.

Ken M really needs to comment on this.

Wendler is being very cool about this. Hope he’s considering engaging IP lawyers.

It’s a free app. How is this any different than any number of homemade 5 3 1 spreadsheets that have circulated around here (among other sites)?

james

[quote]atypical1 wrote:
It’s a free app. How is this any different than any number of homemade 5 3 1 spreadsheets that have circulated around here (among other sites)?

james[/quote]

He is promoting it using Wendler’s name. That’s the issue.

[quote]XanderBuilt wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
Juliete Deanes comment is pretty damn witty.
[/quote]

Indeed.

Ken M really needs to comment on this.

Wendler is being very cool about this. Hope he’s considering engaging IP lawyers.[/quote]

My understanding of IP arguments is that they are very long, convoluted, and expensive. There needs to be many (hundreds) of millions of dollars on the line to engage the services of an IP lawyer.

Jewbacca would probably know more about that than me though.

I dont understand why people would need this. Anyone with remedial math and/or excel skills can have this thing on their phone or ipod in a few minutes.

edit: I’m talking in general not the app

Also, to be a nerd on this one, you can’t patent a recipe. KFC’s secret recipe cannot be patented or protected as ‘intellectual property’ because it is a recipe - that’s why they keep it a secret, much like Coke and it’s recipe.

Song lyrics come under natural copyright, and as such Wendler’s ebook is protected by natural copyright, but the guy didnt just outright copy the ebook, merely used ideas in it.

Wendler cannot patent his system of exercise, as it probably falls under the category of natural law, which in any country you cannot protect (think about it, that would be basically giving a person the right to exclude people from exercising in a certain way). His only chance would be to have trademarked “Wendler’s 5/3/1” or something and then buttrape the guy for ripping him off under business trademark laws.

It’s a shitty situation but it seems like unless he can get the guy on the naming, all that can be done is ‘name and shame’.

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]SSC wrote:
I did think of a question; if Wendler has such a problem with this, surely he has trademarked his 5/3/1 system to some capacity and can get this removed.

If not, it’s his own fault.[/quote]

Yeah, that was my first thought also. Doesn’t he own the 5/3/1 concept? It’s intellectual property, like song lyrics or KFC’s secret recipe. Except that this is a recipe for success instead of fried chicken. I don’t know what the process is like to gain any and all publishing rights to this program, but I can’t imagine it’s all that difficult.

It’s reassuring to see him stick by his guns on this issue. I’d never really thought about a Wendler app, but it DOES make sense since there’s a little bit of calculating percentages involved. But kind of along the lines he followed in his response, part of it is writing that shit down and figuring out what the numbers are yourself and testing yourself properly to have a good starting point to work from. I haven’t followed his program for about a year now, but I used to swear by it (and still do, I’m just focusing more on wave loading with weights close to the max that I can accelerate with) and when I followed it one of the things that happened was that I was constantly thinking in my head when I was bored at work or something about what the numbers were for whatever lift was up that day.

It just kept me that much more motivated to get in the gym and bang that shit out with some real intensity. It keeps it in your mind just a little more when it isn’t just all preordained for you by some dumb fucking app that a goddamned little runt with the moral code of a fucking barn owl.

“Obsession is the mortal enemy of apathy.” -DB Cooper[/quote]

[quote]atypical1 wrote:
It’s a free app. How is this any different than any number of homemade 5 3 1 spreadsheets that have circulated around here (among other sites)?

james[/quote]

There is also a paid version of the app. I think it’s mostly about attaching Wendler’s name to the app but there are others that also do this. Perhaps the only real reason it is being singled out is the charge for it.

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]XanderBuilt wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
Juliete Deanes comment is pretty damn witty.
[/quote]

Indeed.

Ken M really needs to comment on this.

Wendler is being very cool about this. Hope he’s considering engaging IP lawyers.[/quote]

My understanding of IP arguments is that they are very long, convoluted, and expensive. There needs to be many (hundreds) of millions of dollars on the line to engage the services of an IP lawyer.

Jewbacca would probably know more about that than me though.

[/quote]

Yes and also there’s variations between patents, trade secrets, trademarks, copyrights etc. Does DF still post on this site?

I “think” this is a strong case for misuse of an “artist” name.

5/3/1 is synonymous with Wendler. Regardless of if JW used knowledge and research from other contributors in developing 5/3/1 it was JW that created and marketed it.

And 5/3/1 uses a specific set of percentages, rep schemes, and even program design. So it cannot be argued that this application did not use Wendler’s material to make it.

Wendler can choose to let it go but this does not mean he does not have a case in this matter. And totally agreed on the cost aspect, it’s perhaps not worth it.

The Wendler is officially taking legal action. This is his life work we’re talking about. He uses the money he makes from this to feed his family. Legal action takes time though so The Wendler was just getting the word out that he is not affiliated with this rip off product. Aside from copyright issues he does not want to be associated with such a poorly put together product. Kinda hard though when the Application is using his name.

[quote]perseng wrote:
Also, to be a nerd on this one, you can’t patent a recipe. KFC’s secret recipe cannot be patented or protected as ‘intellectual property’ because it is a recipe - that’s why they keep it a secret, much like Coke and it’s recipe.

Song lyrics come under natural copyright, and as such Wendler’s ebook is protected by natural copyright, but the guy didnt just outright copy the ebook, merely used ideas in it.

Wendler cannot patent his system of exercise, as it probably falls under the category of natural law, which in any country you cannot protect (think about it, that would be basically giving a person the right to exclude people from exercising in a certain way). His only chance would be to have trademarked “Wendler’s 5/3/1” or something and then buttrape the guy for ripping him off under business trademark laws.

It’s a shitty situation but it seems like unless he can get the guy on the naming, all that can be done is ‘name and shame’.

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]SSC wrote:
I did think of a question; if Wendler has such a problem with this, surely he has trademarked his 5/3/1 system to some capacity and can get this removed.

If not, it’s his own fault.[/quote]

Yeah, that was my first thought also. Doesn’t he own the 5/3/1 concept? It’s intellectual property, like song lyrics or KFC’s secret recipe. Except that this is a recipe for success instead of fried chicken. I don’t know what the process is like to gain any and all publishing rights to this program, but I can’t imagine it’s all that difficult.

It’s reassuring to see him stick by his guns on this issue. I’d never really thought about a Wendler app, but it DOES make sense since there’s a little bit of calculating percentages involved. But kind of along the lines he followed in his response, part of it is writing that shit down and figuring out what the numbers are yourself and testing yourself properly to have a good starting point to work from. I haven’t followed his program for about a year now, but I used to swear by it (and still do, I’m just focusing more on wave loading with weights close to the max that I can accelerate with) and when I followed it one of the things that happened was that I was constantly thinking in my head when I was bored at work or something about what the numbers were for whatever lift was up that day.

It just kept me that much more motivated to get in the gym and bang that shit out with some real intensity. It keeps it in your mind just a little more when it isn’t just all preordained for you by some dumb fucking app that a goddamned little runt with the moral code of a fucking barn owl.

“Obsession is the mortal enemy of apathy.” -DB Cooper[/quote][/quote]
The issue isn’t using the system, the issue is attaching Wendler’s name to it, calling it the Wendler 5/3/1 App and then putting it out there. It creates the impression that Wendler endorses the App, which he does not.

Besides, isn’t P90X patented and copyrighted material? Aside from its staggering difference in awesomeness, what is the difference between the 5/3/1 program and the P90X program? You can make an App that lays out a program of high-rep, bodyweight exercises or whatever P90X is, but you can’t put the P90X name on it without their permission, let alone make any money off of it this way.

I don’t know if the guy plans on making money with this, but that’s actually immaterial to the whole discussion anyways, since he can’t attach Wendler’s name to it regardless.

And I’m not entirely sure you’re correct in assertion about patenting a system of movements and “natural law”. I suppose the recipe analogy was poor and the songwriting one may be irrelevant, but I’d like the opinion of a licensed, practicing contract law attorney. I think Jewbacca is an attorney who works in the area of contract law. Maybe he will come across this thread and clear things up for us.

[quote]andrew_live wrote:
The Wendler is officially taking legal action. This is his life work we’re talking about. He uses the money he makes from this to feed his family. Legal action takes time though so The Wendler was just getting the word out that he is not affiliated with this rip off product. Aside from copyright issues he does not want to be associated with such a poorly put together product. Kinda hard though when the Application is using his name.[/quote]

Sounds like a cease-and-desist letter from a 300-pound Samoan attorney with a Messianic complex so horrible he thinks he’s doomed to die at 32 like Jesus, and is already 32 and a half, is in order.

[quote]BeefEater wrote:

[quote]atypical1 wrote:
It’s a free app. How is this any different than any number of homemade 5 3 1 spreadsheets that have circulated around here (among other sites)?

james[/quote]

There is also a paid version of the app. I think it’s mostly about attaching Wendler’s name to the app but there are others that also do this. Perhaps the only real reason it is being singled out is the charge for it.[/quote]

apparently there is a version of this same app on itunes for purchase. Im at work so maybe someone can verify that?