Ramping (Beating a Dead Horse, I Know)

[quote]destroyedquads wrote:
The reason why bodybuilders ramp is because you lift heavier weight more intensely = growth.
those first sets are priming the muscle, joints and mind with gradually heavier weights ready for the really heavy set were you go all out and give it everything you’ve got.

If you are taking your sweet time doing 3 sets of the same weight, none of those sets are going to be as effective because you will be holding back on each of them, to ‘keep some in the tank for the next set’. With ramping, you will be lifting heavier weight because you will not be fatigued from those other straight sets. Instead, the earlier sets are just to warm up and prepare yourself. SO as a result you will lift heavier weight and you will give it your all and not hold back.

In your example you would be lifting more than 60lb if you would have ramped. You also would be progressing faster because you would just have one set to worry about (and not 3).

If you are doing 3 whole sets of medium high reps the weight is too light for bodybuilding and you are shortcharging yourself.[/quote]

Treating ramping as only doing one imporant set is improper IMO. Every set I do has a purpose and I try to feel the muscle working as best as possible. I certainly “worry about” the sets preceeding my last. What happens on the day your last set sucks. ANd you didnt really put in 100% effort into your earlier sets, sounds like you just caused yourself to have a bad workout when you could have salvaged something by giving 100% all the time.

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:

[quote]MrEdofCourse wrote:
Ive been lifting for over 10years now, and I understand the concept of ramping on compounds lifts. My whole goal is to grow my bi’s larger. Ive always read and understand your bi’s need to be worked differently ( meaning higher volume) So for example last night I trained the bi’s with 9 sets of 3 diff exercises. After I warmed up I performed 3 straight set of 10reps with 60lbs on Alt Db curls, and then went to hammers and performed the same 3x10, and then to cable curls.

From what I understand, I should have performed sets like this: 20lbs for 10, 40lb for 10 and then 60lb for 10, and then moved to the next exercise. To me I get a much more intense workout doing 3 straight sets than I would have with ramping, because out of 9 sets only 3 sets would have been all out sets when ramping. Correct me if Im wrong here. I know that ramping is great and most big lifters ramp, and I ramp on my compound lifts, just plz educate me on why ramping is better on accessory lifts.[/quote]

You answered your own question man, “To me I get a much more intense workout doing 3 straight sets than I would have with ramping,” why would you want to ramp if you like straight sets more?

Furthermore, the point of ramping is so you can do more than 60 x 10 on that last set, why on earth you would do 20 x 10, 40 x 10, and 60 x 10 when you are strong enough to do 60 x 10, 60 x 10, 60 x 10 is beyond me. The point of ramping is to get you warmed up for that 80 x 10 set.

I do straight sets and ramping sets, these questions are frusturating to me because you said you have been lifting for 10 years and this is so basic my friend.

You know what works, do it, nobody here can tell you what works best for you, only you can make that decision so do your thing.[/quote]

Common sense aint so common.

Not everyone has the innate drive to push himself as hard as possible to guarentee progress is made.

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]destroyedquads wrote:
The reason why bodybuilders ramp is because you lift heavier weight more intensely = growth.
those first sets are priming the muscle, joints and mind with gradually heavier weights ready for the really heavy set were you go all out and give it everything you’ve got.

If you are taking your sweet time doing 3 sets of the same weight, none of those sets are going to be as effective because you will be holding back on each of them, to ‘keep some in the tank for the next set’. With ramping, you will be lifting heavier weight because you will not be fatigued from those other straight sets. Instead, the earlier sets are just to warm up and prepare yourself. SO as a result you will lift heavier weight and you will give it your all and not hold back.

In your example you would be lifting more than 60lb if you would have ramped. You also would be progressing faster because you would just have one set to worry about (and not 3).

If you are doing 3 whole sets of medium high reps the weight is too light for bodybuilding and you are shortcharging yourself.[/quote]

Treating ramping as only doing one imporant set is improper IMO. Every set I do has a purpose and I try to feel the muscle working as best as possible. I certainly “worry about” the sets preceeding my last. What happens on the day your last set sucks. ANd you didnt really put in 100% effort into your earlier sets, sounds like you just caused yourself to have a bad workout when you could have salvaged something by giving 100% all the time. [/quote]

This is exactly how the HIT and Dorian Yates Squad confuse people with the misnomer “1 set to failure”, making it out to be that the ONLY thing they did that lead to their growth and strength is their top sets. Anything over 70% of the max done to a point where some fatigue is induced will provide a stimulus to the muscle provided there’s enough total volume done.

It’s also not all about the last set, because the warmup and preceding work sets serve as “primers” (lack of better word); generally speaking, without them, you wouldn’t be able to work up to those top sets.

One big dude does 10*3 for biceps. You start doing it and you realize you don’t feel the muscle working and that the workout really sucked. Let’s erase the possibility that you just went through the sets and reps without giving importance to intensity, would you keep doing it?

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]destroyedquads wrote:
The reason why bodybuilders ramp is because you lift heavier weight more intensely = growth.
those first sets are priming the muscle, joints and mind with gradually heavier weights ready for the really heavy set were you go all out and give it everything you’ve got.

If you are taking your sweet time doing 3 sets of the same weight, none of those sets are going to be as effective because you will be holding back on each of them, to ‘keep some in the tank for the next set’. With ramping, you will be lifting heavier weight because you will not be fatigued from those other straight sets. Instead, the earlier sets are just to warm up and prepare yourself. SO as a result you will lift heavier weight and you will give it your all and not hold back.

In your example you would be lifting more than 60lb if you would have ramped. You also would be progressing faster because you would just have one set to worry about (and not 3).

If you are doing 3 whole sets of medium high reps the weight is too light for bodybuilding and you are shortcharging yourself.[/quote]

Treating ramping as only doing one imporant set is improper IMO. Every set I do has a purpose and I try to feel the muscle working as best as possible. I certainly “worry about” the sets preceeding my last. What happens on the day your last set sucks. ANd you didnt really put in 100% effort into your earlier sets, sounds like you just caused yourself to have a bad workout when you could have salvaged something by giving 100% all the time. [/quote]

This is exactly how the HIT and Dorian Yates Squad confuse people with the misnomer “1 set to failure”, making it out to be that the ONLY thing they did that lead to their growth and strength is their top sets. Anything over 70% of the max done to a point where some fatigue is induced will provide a stimulus to the muscle provided there’s enough total volume done.

It’s also not all about the last set, because the warmup and preceding work sets serve as “primers” (lack of better word); generally speaking, without them, you wouldn’t be able to work up to those top sets.

[/quote]

Right. Yates would do a top set of rows with 455 for 6. People seem to over look that his 6 sets before that were probably around 225, 315, 365, 405, and 425 for whatever amount of reps. Sure, none of them were to failure but they damn sure accomplished something and he treated them serious as hell.

Training each MUSCLE to failure does not mean traning each SET to failure.

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
How is “ramping” so complicated? Is it not common sense to move on to a bigger load after the one you just did hit the target reps smoothly?

[/quote]

Apparently it is, considering there have been 50 page thread on it - a concept as fuckin simple as this…

Top set: 200 x 10

Here’s how you do a fucking ramp.

Warmup sets:
40 x a bazillion (for teh good blud flowz)
80
110
140

Work sets:
160 x 10
180 x 10
200 x 10

This is typical bodybuilding shit.

If you ramp up for a 1 or 3 rep max, it looks like this.

3 RM: 300

Here’s how it’s done.

bar x 5
75 x 3
105 x 3
135 x 3
165 x 3
195 x 3
225 x 3
255 x 3
285 x 3
300 x 3

Rocket science![/quote]
Ok smartass, did you explain anything in that or just post numbers? Thats my point, everyone wants to post numbers, except for a few that replied back to WHY ramping is important, read my earlier post and i clearly said i understand the concept but WHY on biceps which require multitple exercises…

on a good note, i appreciate the explanations Destroy, Dnl, Beef, Austin and Bonez. Ive got the concept of why, which is what i was looking for.

[quote]MrEdofCourse wrote:
… but WHY on biceps which require multitple exercises…[/quote]

For BB training, all muscle groups require multiple exercises.

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
How is “ramping” so complicated? Is it not common sense to move on to a bigger load after the one you just did hit the target reps smoothly?

[/quote]

Apparently it is, considering there have been 50 page thread on it - a concept as fuckin simple as this…

Top set: 200 x 10

Here’s how you do a fucking ramp.

Warmup sets:
40 x a bazillion (for teh good blud flowz)
80
110
140

Work sets:
160 x 10
180 x 10
200 x 10

This is typical bodybuilding shit.

If you ramp up for a 1 or 3 rep max, it looks like this.

3 RM: 300

Here’s how it’s done.

bar x 5
75 x 3
105 x 3
135 x 3
165 x 3
195 x 3
225 x 3
255 x 3
285 x 3
300 x 3

Rocket science![/quote]

But that’s not how I ramp though!!!

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]destroyedquads wrote:
The reason why bodybuilders ramp is because you lift heavier weight more intensely = growth.
those first sets are priming the muscle, joints and mind with gradually heavier weights ready for the really heavy set were you go all out and give it everything you’ve got.

If you are taking your sweet time doing 3 sets of the same weight, none of those sets are going to be as effective because you will be holding back on each of them, to ‘keep some in the tank for the next set’. With ramping, you will be lifting heavier weight because you will not be fatigued from those other straight sets. Instead, the earlier sets are just to warm up and prepare yourself. SO as a result you will lift heavier weight and you will give it your all and not hold back.

In your example you would be lifting more than 60lb if you would have ramped. You also would be progressing faster because you would just have one set to worry about (and not 3).

If you are doing 3 whole sets of medium high reps the weight is too light for bodybuilding and you are shortcharging yourself.[/quote]

Treating ramping as only doing one imporant set is improper IMO. Every set I do has a purpose and I try to feel the muscle working as best as possible. I certainly “worry about” the sets preceeding my last. What happens on the day your last set sucks. ANd you didnt really put in 100% effort into your earlier sets, sounds like you just caused yourself to have a bad workout when you could have salvaged something by giving 100% all the time. [/quote]

Thats not what I meant. At all. It should be obvious that I was talking in refrence with doing 3 straight sets to failure. In ramping, it’s generally the last set to failure, so you will be concerned with long term weight progression with that LAST set and not with previous sets like when you do straight sets. Of course all the sets are important from a preparatory perspective.

I sometimes think people deliberately nit pick posts in order to find something ‘wrong’ and make themselves feel smarter than those people around them.

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]destroyedquads wrote:
The reason why bodybuilders ramp is because you lift heavier weight more intensely = growth.
those first sets are priming the muscle, joints and mind with gradually heavier weights ready for the really heavy set were you go all out and give it everything you’ve got.

If you are taking your sweet time doing 3 sets of the same weight, none of those sets are going to be as effective because you will be holding back on each of them, to ‘keep some in the tank for the next set’. With ramping, you will be lifting heavier weight because you will not be fatigued from those other straight sets. Instead, the earlier sets are just to warm up and prepare yourself. SO as a result you will lift heavier weight and you will give it your all and not hold back.

In your example you would be lifting more than 60lb if you would have ramped. You also would be progressing faster because you would just have one set to worry about (and not 3).

If you are doing 3 whole sets of medium high reps the weight is too light for bodybuilding and you are shortcharging yourself.[/quote]

Treating ramping as only doing one imporant set is improper IMO. Every set I do has a purpose and I try to feel the muscle working as best as possible. I certainly “worry about” the sets preceeding my last. What happens on the day your last set sucks. ANd you didnt really put in 100% effort into your earlier sets, sounds like you just caused yourself to have a bad workout when you could have salvaged something by giving 100% all the time. [/quote]

This is exactly how the HIT and Dorian Yates Squad confuse people with the misnomer “1 set to failure”, making it out to be that the ONLY thing they did that lead to their growth and strength is their top sets. Anything over 70% of the max done to a point where some fatigue is induced will provide a stimulus to the muscle provided there’s enough total volume done.

It’s also not all about the last set, because the warmup and preceding work sets serve as “primers” (lack of better word); generally speaking, without them, you wouldn’t be able to work up to those top sets.

[/quote]

Right. Yates would do a top set of rows with 455 for 6. People seem to over look that his 6 sets before that were probably around 225, 315, 365, 405, and 425 for whatever amount of reps. Sure, none of them were to failure but they damn sure accomplished something and he treated them serious as hell.

Training each MUSCLE to failure does not mean traning each SET to failure.[/quote]

Wow. How about both of you read my post again, and notice were I said: “those first sets are priming the muscle, joints and mind with gradually heavier weights ready for the really heavy set were you go all out and give it everything you’ve got.”

… instead my post was completely taken out of context because people on these boards evidently like to nit pick and find something to argue about.

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
How is “ramping” so complicated? Is it not common sense to move on to a bigger load after the one you just did hit the target reps smoothly?

[/quote]

Apparently it is, considering there have been 50 page thread on it - a concept as fuckin simple as this…

Top set: 200 x 10

Here’s how you do a fucking ramp.

Warmup sets:
40 x a bazillion (for teh good blud flowz)
80
110
140

Work sets:
160 x 10
180 x 10
200 x 10

This is typical bodybuilding shit. [/quote]

And now you may have newbies thinking that work sets HAVE to be 20lb apart… for 10 reps each. I know this is not what you mean, but this concept is so situational that it depends on YOUR body and feel during each workout. Again, this is what I meant in my posts. The first sets ‘don’t matter’ because you are measuring your progress by the weight of the last set. It ultimately doesn’t matter what weight for what reps you do the first few sets for because you are doing only what wil get you ready and prepared. Those first few sets I guess ‘are important’ because they are priming and preparing you for the last most intense set.

Why the fuck is this so complicated to understand? Why the fuck would I mean anything different in my post? Why the fuck do people nit pick on these forums? Why the fuck do you think everyone else is too dumb to get this concept that is so blatantly basic you’d have to be an idiot not to get it?

[quote]destroyedquads wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]destroyedquads wrote:
The reason why bodybuilders ramp is because you lift heavier weight more intensely = growth.
those first sets are priming the muscle, joints and mind with gradually heavier weights ready for the really heavy set were you go all out and give it everything you’ve got.

If you are taking your sweet time doing 3 sets of the same weight, none of those sets are going to be as effective because you will be holding back on each of them, to ‘keep some in the tank for the next set’. With ramping, you will be lifting heavier weight because you will not be fatigued from those other straight sets. Instead, the earlier sets are just to warm up and prepare yourself. SO as a result you will lift heavier weight and you will give it your all and not hold back.

In your example you would be lifting more than 60lb if you would have ramped. You also would be progressing faster because you would just have one set to worry about (and not 3).

If you are doing 3 whole sets of medium high reps the weight is too light for bodybuilding and you are shortcharging yourself.[/quote]

Treating ramping as only doing one imporant set is improper IMO. Every set I do has a purpose and I try to feel the muscle working as best as possible. I certainly “worry about” the sets preceeding my last. What happens on the day your last set sucks. ANd you didnt really put in 100% effort into your earlier sets, sounds like you just caused yourself to have a bad workout when you could have salvaged something by giving 100% all the time. [/quote]

Thats not what I meant. At all. It should be obvious that I was talking in refrence with doing 3 straight sets to failure. In ramping, it’s generally the last set to failure, so you will be concerned with long term weight progression with that LAST set and not with previous sets like when you do straight sets. Of course all the sets are important from a preparatory perspective.

I sometimes think people deliberately nit pick posts in order to find something ‘wrong’ and make themselves feel smarter than those people around them.[/quote]

If doing my second to last set of rack pulls at 500lbs it certainly isnt just a warmup or a set to prepare myself for the last set. Every set is treated the exact same, just the weight and reps are different.

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]destroyedquads wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]destroyedquads wrote:
The reason why bodybuilders ramp is because you lift heavier weight more intensely = growth.
those first sets are priming the muscle, joints and mind with gradually heavier weights ready for the really heavy set were you go all out and give it everything you’ve got.

If you are taking your sweet time doing 3 sets of the same weight, none of those sets are going to be as effective because you will be holding back on each of them, to ‘keep some in the tank for the next set’. With ramping, you will be lifting heavier weight because you will not be fatigued from those other straight sets. Instead, the earlier sets are just to warm up and prepare yourself. SO as a result you will lift heavier weight and you will give it your all and not hold back.

In your example you would be lifting more than 60lb if you would have ramped. You also would be progressing faster because you would just have one set to worry about (and not 3).

If you are doing 3 whole sets of medium high reps the weight is too light for bodybuilding and you are shortcharging yourself.[/quote]

Treating ramping as only doing one imporant set is improper IMO. Every set I do has a purpose and I try to feel the muscle working as best as possible. I certainly “worry about” the sets preceeding my last. What happens on the day your last set sucks. ANd you didnt really put in 100% effort into your earlier sets, sounds like you just caused yourself to have a bad workout when you could have salvaged something by giving 100% all the time. [/quote]

Thats not what I meant. At all. It should be obvious that I was talking in refrence with doing 3 straight sets to failure. In ramping, it’s generally the last set to failure, so you will be concerned with long term weight progression with that LAST set and not with previous sets like when you do straight sets. Of course all the sets are important from a preparatory perspective.

I sometimes think people deliberately nit pick posts in order to find something ‘wrong’ and make themselves feel smarter than those people around them.[/quote]

If doing my second to last set of rack pulls at 500lbs it certainly isnt just a warmup or a set to prepare myself for the last set. Every set is treated the exact same, just the weight and reps are different. [/quote]

Exactly, but if that set is 10 reps this week, you are not going to think next week: ‘oh I got 10 reps with this set last week, so I should get more in order to progress’.
That set is still just being used to prepare for the heaviest one, and not really to judge progress and whether or not you are stronger this week. Why? because you will not always feel the same every workout. The weights and reps for your warm up/preparatory/work set (or however you want to call it; I think we are arguing over semantics here) will vary depending on HOW YOU FEEL THAT DAY and what will best prepare you for the heaviest ‘work set’ that day for that exercise.

Today I incline bench:

barx20
135x10
185x6
225x6
275xmax reps

I felt really in the zone and warmed up so I felt like I didn’t really need a whole lot of warm up/working/preparatory sets for the last set. But maybe next week I will be feeling shitty due to various stressors, lack of sleep, etc. I may need more warmups/working sets with higher reps or smaller weight incremements to help prepare me and get in the zone.

This is what I meant by ‘they dont matter, only the last set does’, because the last set is what you will be measuring your weight progression on. I am not talking about effort or concentration. I am not saying that the previous sets don’t contribute to growth. I am saying that you don’t use them for measuring progression (the last set is).

I know that you know all of this. I know that we are talking about the same fucking thing when it comes to ramping. I am not some HIT disciple, that is fucking offensive to even call me that. This is a misunderstanding based on semantics which is why I am very fucking annoyed.

I call warm ups any set that prepares me for the last set. I guess most people call them work sets, some call them preparatory sets. Whatever. It is one fucking word.

Edited to better get my point across.

[quote]destroyedquads wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]destroyedquads wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]destroyedquads wrote:
The reason why bodybuilders ramp is because you lift heavier weight more intensely = growth.
those first sets are priming the muscle, joints and mind with gradually heavier weights ready for the really heavy set were you go all out and give it everything you’ve got.

If you are taking your sweet time doing 3 sets of the same weight, none of those sets are going to be as effective because you will be holding back on each of them, to ‘keep some in the tank for the next set’. With ramping, you will be lifting heavier weight because you will not be fatigued from those other straight sets. Instead, the earlier sets are just to warm up and prepare yourself. SO as a result you will lift heavier weight and you will give it your all and not hold back.

In your example you would be lifting more than 60lb if you would have ramped. You also would be progressing faster because you would just have one set to worry about (and not 3).

If you are doing 3 whole sets of medium high reps the weight is too light for bodybuilding and you are shortcharging yourself.[/quote]

Treating ramping as only doing one imporant set is improper IMO. Every set I do has a purpose and I try to feel the muscle working as best as possible. I certainly “worry about” the sets preceeding my last. What happens on the day your last set sucks. ANd you didnt really put in 100% effort into your earlier sets, sounds like you just caused yourself to have a bad workout when you could have salvaged something by giving 100% all the time. [/quote]

Thats not what I meant. At all. It should be obvious that I was talking in refrence with doing 3 straight sets to failure. In ramping, it’s generally the last set to failure, so you will be concerned with long term weight progression with that LAST set and not with previous sets like when you do straight sets. Of course all the sets are important from a preparatory perspective.

I sometimes think people deliberately nit pick posts in order to find something ‘wrong’ and make themselves feel smarter than those people around them.[/quote]

If doing my second to last set of rack pulls at 500lbs it certainly isnt just a warmup or a set to prepare myself for the last set. Every set is treated the exact same, just the weight and reps are different. [/quote]

Exactly, but if that set is 10 reps this week, you are not going to think next week: ‘oh I got 10 reps with this set last week, so I should get more in order to progress’.
That set is still just being used to prepare for the heaviest one, and not really to judge progress and whether or not you are stronger this week. Why? because you will not always feel the same every workout. The weights and reps for your warm up/preparatory/work set (or however you want to call it; I think we are arguing over semantics here) will vary depending on HOW YOU FEEL THAT DAY and what will best prepare you for the heaviest ‘work set’ that day for that exercise.

Today I incline bench:

barx20
135x10
185x6
225x6
275xmax reps

I felt really in the zone and warmed up so I felt like I didn’t really need a whole lot of warm up/working/preparatory sets for the last set. But maybe next week I will be feeling shitty due to various stressors, lack of sleep, etc. I may need more warmups/working sets with higher reps or smaller weight incremements to help prepare me and get in the zone.

This is what I meant by ‘they dont matter, only the last set does’, because the last set is what you will be measuring your weight progression on. I am not talking about effort or concentration. I am not saying that the previous sets don’t contribute to growth. I am saying that you don’t use them for measuring progression (the last set is).

I know that you know all of this. I know that we are talking about the same fucking thing when it comes to ramping. I am not some HIT disciple, that is fucking offensive to even call me that. This is a misunderstanding based on semantics which is why I am very fucking annoyed.

I call warm ups any set that prepares me for the last set. I guess most people call them work sets, some call them preparatory sets. Whatever. It is one fucking word.

Edited to better get my point across.[/quote]

Calm down.

We see your point.

It’s hard to communicate online soemtimes because of limited time and patience.

destroyedquads wrote:

“Why the fuck is this so complicated to understand?”

Bros and self-destructive and -defeatist noobs–and self-destructive and -defeatist people in general–make shit more complicated than it is, talk more than they do, and analyze shit to the point of paralysis and insanity!

Also, some people:

  1. don’t give a shit about advice given to them
  2. don’t bother to read or listen
  3. want approval over advice
  4. are incoherent
  5. suffer from emotional or mental disturbance.

“Why the fuck would I mean anything different in my post?”

I’m not sure what this refers to. I agree with what you wrote in this thread.

“Why the fuck do people nit pick on these forums?”

  1. For fun.
  2. It makes them feel important and powerful.
  3. They practice their rhetorical skills.
  4. They actually like, love, or crave harassing other people.
  5. They want attention not provided elsewhere in day-to-day life.

“Why the fuck do you think everyone else is too dumb to get this concept that is so blatantly basic you’d have to be an idiot not to get it?”

You’re a grown adult who’s been on forums for quite some time and have lived enough to see that idiots and the mentally and emotionally disturbed and incoherent exist in significant numbers.

Have you not had to deal or see such people? If you haven’t, I’m jealous.

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]destroyedquads wrote:
The reason why bodybuilders ramp is because you lift heavier weight more intensely = growth.
those first sets are priming the muscle, joints and mind with gradually heavier weights ready for the really heavy set were you go all out and give it everything you’ve got.

If you are taking your sweet time doing 3 sets of the same weight, none of those sets are going to be as effective because you will be holding back on each of them, to ‘keep some in the tank for the next set’. With ramping, you will be lifting heavier weight because you will not be fatigued from those other straight sets. Instead, the earlier sets are just to warm up and prepare yourself. SO as a result you will lift heavier weight and you will give it your all and not hold back.

In your example you would be lifting more than 60lb if you would have ramped. You also would be progressing faster because you would just have one set to worry about (and not 3).

If you are doing 3 whole sets of medium high reps the weight is too light for bodybuilding and you are shortcharging yourself.[/quote]

Treating ramping as only doing one imporant set is improper IMO. Every set I do has a purpose and I try to feel the muscle working as best as possible. I certainly “worry about” the sets preceeding my last. What happens on the day your last set sucks. ANd you didnt really put in 100% effort into your earlier sets, sounds like you just caused yourself to have a bad workout when you could have salvaged something by giving 100% all the time. [/quote]

This is exactly how the HIT and Dorian Yates Squad confuse people with the misnomer “1 set to failure”, making it out to be that the ONLY thing they did that lead to their growth and strength is their top sets. Anything over 70% of the max done to a point where some fatigue is induced will provide a stimulus to the muscle provided there’s enough total volume done.

It’s also not all about the last set, because the warmup and preceding work sets serve as “primers” (lack of better word); generally speaking, without them, you wouldn’t be able to work up to those top sets.

[/quote]

Right. Yates would do a top set of rows with 455 for 6. People seem to over look that his 6 sets before that were probably around 225, 315, 365, 405, and 425 for whatever amount of reps. Sure, none of them were to failure but they damn sure accomplished something and he treated them serious as hell.

Training each MUSCLE to failure does not mean traning each SET to failure.[/quote]

It seems like there’s not much of a difference between people who do “high volume” and
“low volume”. The only difference is the high volume people count there ramp up sets as work sets and low volume people only count their last set as a work set.

[quote]punkguitarist wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]destroyedquads wrote:
The reason why bodybuilders ramp is because you lift heavier weight more intensely = growth.
those first sets are priming the muscle, joints and mind with gradually heavier weights ready for the really heavy set were you go all out and give it everything you’ve got.

If you are taking your sweet time doing 3 sets of the same weight, none of those sets are going to be as effective because you will be holding back on each of them, to ‘keep some in the tank for the next set’. With ramping, you will be lifting heavier weight because you will not be fatigued from those other straight sets. Instead, the earlier sets are just to warm up and prepare yourself. SO as a result you will lift heavier weight and you will give it your all and not hold back.

In your example you would be lifting more than 60lb if you would have ramped. You also would be progressing faster because you would just have one set to worry about (and not 3).

If you are doing 3 whole sets of medium high reps the weight is too light for bodybuilding and you are shortcharging yourself.[/quote]

Treating ramping as only doing one imporant set is improper IMO. Every set I do has a purpose and I try to feel the muscle working as best as possible. I certainly “worry about” the sets preceeding my last. What happens on the day your last set sucks. ANd you didnt really put in 100% effort into your earlier sets, sounds like you just caused yourself to have a bad workout when you could have salvaged something by giving 100% all the time. [/quote]

This is exactly how the HIT and Dorian Yates Squad confuse people with the misnomer “1 set to failure”, making it out to be that the ONLY thing they did that lead to their growth and strength is their top sets. Anything over 70% of the max done to a point where some fatigue is induced will provide a stimulus to the muscle provided there’s enough total volume done.

It’s also not all about the last set, because the warmup and preceding work sets serve as “primers” (lack of better word); generally speaking, without them, you wouldn’t be able to work up to those top sets.

[/quote]

Right. Yates would do a top set of rows with 455 for 6. People seem to over look that his 6 sets before that were probably around 225, 315, 365, 405, and 425 for whatever amount of reps. Sure, none of them were to failure but they damn sure accomplished something and he treated them serious as hell.

Training each MUSCLE to failure does not mean traning each SET to failure.[/quote]

It seems like there’s not much of a difference between people who do “high volume” and
“low volume”. The only difference is the high volume people count there ramp up sets as work sets and low volume people only count their last set as a work set. [/quote]

Pretty much, although some high volume people do more exercises and a lot more fluff sets. Pauel Dillet is a good example. Watch a clip of him training. He appears to be half asleep.

[quote]punkguitarist wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]destroyedquads wrote:
The reason why bodybuilders ramp is because you lift heavier weight more intensely = growth.
those first sets are priming the muscle, joints and mind with gradually heavier weights ready for the really heavy set were you go all out and give it everything you’ve got.

If you are taking your sweet time doing 3 sets of the same weight, none of those sets are going to be as effective because you will be holding back on each of them, to ‘keep some in the tank for the next set’. With ramping, you will be lifting heavier weight because you will not be fatigued from those other straight sets. Instead, the earlier sets are just to warm up and prepare yourself. SO as a result you will lift heavier weight and you will give it your all and not hold back.

In your example you would be lifting more than 60lb if you would have ramped. You also would be progressing faster because you would just have one set to worry about (and not 3).

If you are doing 3 whole sets of medium high reps the weight is too light for bodybuilding and you are shortcharging yourself.[/quote]

Treating ramping as only doing one imporant set is improper IMO. Every set I do has a purpose and I try to feel the muscle working as best as possible. I certainly “worry about” the sets preceeding my last. What happens on the day your last set sucks. ANd you didnt really put in 100% effort into your earlier sets, sounds like you just caused yourself to have a bad workout when you could have salvaged something by giving 100% all the time. [/quote]

This is exactly how the HIT and Dorian Yates Squad confuse people with the misnomer “1 set to failure”, making it out to be that the ONLY thing they did that lead to their growth and strength is their top sets. Anything over 70% of the max done to a point where some fatigue is induced will provide a stimulus to the muscle provided there’s enough total volume done.

It’s also not all about the last set, because the warmup and preceding work sets serve as “primers” (lack of better word); generally speaking, without them, you wouldn’t be able to work up to those top sets.

[/quote]

Right. Yates would do a top set of rows with 455 for 6. People seem to over look that his 6 sets before that were probably around 225, 315, 365, 405, and 425 for whatever amount of reps. Sure, none of them were to failure but they damn sure accomplished something and he treated them serious as hell.

Training each MUSCLE to failure does not mean traning each SET to failure.[/quote]

It seems like there’s not much of a difference between people who do “high volume” and
“low volume”. The only difference is the high volume people count there ramp up sets as work sets and low volume people only count their last set as a work set. [/quote]

It depends how youre measureing volume.

If I do low volume work my overall amount of sets per body part in a given week may be the same, but my sets per workout will be fewer because I train the msucle more frequently. The weight will also be greater in the low volume sessions. When I train with higher volume I may hit a bodypart once every 6 or 7 days instead of 3 or 4.

Not everyone ramps. There is definitely a literal difference in training with high volume compared to low volume.

If there wasnt, the terms wouldnt need to exist in the first place. Thats my opinion at least

edit. Yates relied on a 3 way split for a large portion of his career. You can easily manipulate the volume simply by adding more exercises to the specific day. The number of days in a split before the bodyparts are trained again is NOT, by itself, indicative of the volume.

I just gave an example of how my traning varies when I want to adjust volume, there are other ways as well.

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
How is “ramping” so complicated? Is it not common sense to move on to a bigger load after the one you just did hit the target reps smoothly?

[/quote]

Apparently it is, considering there have been 50 page thread on it - a concept as fuckin simple as this…

Top set: 200 x 10

Here’s how you do a fucking ramp.

Warmup sets:
40 x a bazillion (for teh good blud flowz)
80
110
140

Work sets:
160 x 10
180 x 10
200 x 10

This is typical bodybuilding shit.

If you ramp up for a 1 or 3 rep max, it looks like this.

3 RM: 300

Here’s how it’s done.

bar x 5
75 x 3
105 x 3
135 x 3
165 x 3
195 x 3
225 x 3
255 x 3
285 x 3
300 x 3

Rocket science![/quote]

But that’s not how I ramp though!!![/quote]

I know austin said that jokingly but does any one else ramp up to their top set then continue the exercise at lighter loads?

the first high(er) rep stuff i ever did was BBB so this just seemed natural to me to ramp like
the following:

Warmups
barx15
95x8
135x6
185x4
225x2

Worksets
195x10
185x10
175x10

(dropping the weight assuming 10 reps each set was just shy of failure)