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R-ALA, Anaconda Protocol and Blood Sugars

So this is what I propose:

I’m thinking of (as best as I can to not vary variables) doing blood sugar testing while on the Anaconda Protocol. Reason is I’d like to incorporate r-ALA during the FINiBARs and see if I can ‘force’ more nutrients during the protocol.

I plan to start about 1 week after the initial protocol just because I’ve been low carb for a long time. I want to have a consistent glycogen supply before I start.

I’ve battled terrible Insulin resistance in the past, however a recent finger prick showed me at 5.1nmol/L first thing in the AM which is good.

Plan to use a modest 200mg of r-ALA.

Anybody have any data, or personal tests they’ve done with something similar to this?

Darkane

Anecdotal and Theoretical post, proceed with caution :slight_smile:

Prior to starting the protocol, I had a pre and during workout shake, both had dex and whey, but the during also had a fair bit of cinnamon in it. Cinnamon also has the ability to act like insulin. (For study, I believe the active compound is hydroxymethylchalcone.)

I haven’t done a trial without cinnamon to compare results, but I did have decent results from this strategy. However, I was freaking WIPED half-way through my workout. (Bye-bye blood sugar)

I would be cautious about using anything that can act like Insulin that early for the protocol, as the high blood sugars do help with performance.

And this is just something in the back of my head bothering me right now, I would think (but no evidence to suggest) that to become truly insulin sensitive, you must be exposed to Insulin at points. The protocol is a great exposure to Insulin, and I would believe any bodily responses to enhance sensitivity would be upregulated in the presence of high Insulin (In an effort to return to homeostasis). Taking r-ALA prior to the Insulin spike may negate the spike, and the subsequent upregulation of bodily sensitizing agents.

But that’s not to say that taking it during an Insulin spike, after upregulation (if it occurs), would be nice for body comp IMO, as you would have upregulation, Insulin, and r-ALA all acting to shuttle nutrients.

Here’s what has worked for me:

*just as a note, I’m doing this while on a cutting diet which is hypocaloric and low carb (but not keto, because of course the finibar plus other sources throughout the day, but I am at about 80 when I workout once and 120 grams when I workout twice)

On the Anaconda protocol, I’ve been using just one FINiBAR before my workouts. Well for the first 2-3 weeks I did a keto diet, but soon thereafter this is how my diet proceeded. I take with the FINiBAR (45 minutes prior to my workout) with 250 mg cinnamon extract (water soluble like cinnulin PF). Also I have been taking 100 mg 4-hydroxyisoluecine as well as 300 mg R-ALA. Then prior to and during the workout I down 2L water mixed with 2 scoops each of Anaconda and MAG-10. My blood sugar and energy levels have been great on this “stack” (God I hate using that phrase).

I’ve lost a good 20+ pounds of fat doing this in 6 weeks, all the while doing very little cardio and or complexes, or anything of the like (to be somewhat precise i like one or less sessions per week of either, so my program that produced these results was solely from heavy lifting). Pretty good results I’d say, especially since insulin was being jacked up by the stuff I was taking (CH, ALA, Cinn. Extract, 4-Hydroxy, 40 grams carbs – although my carbs were pretty low, I mean that 40 grams is much higher than someone on a keto diet, which is what I would expect if someone told me they lost 20 pounds of fat in 6 weeks and actually gained muscle and strength), which I have always thought high insulin during a workout is very bad for fat loss. I think my fat loss results are largely from the increased LBM which has increased/maintained metabolism on the low cal diet.

Over the next 6 weeks, I’ll continue to do this protocol, but increase the cardio sessions (before the upcoming cardio sessions I will not do this protocol, because I do not want to increase insulin, because of its effects on lypolysis). I’ll fit my cardio around regular meals (meat, nuts, veggies).

I might up the cinnamon extract as high as 750 mg (slowly). If that goes well, then I’ll proceed to increase 4-hydroxy 100 mg at a time. The R-ALA, I’ll continue at 300mg as I think this is a pretty hefty (and expensive) dose. My theory is that the jump in cinnamon will be noticeable but not cause a crazy crash in blood sugar (we’ll see) and the 100mg increase in 4-hydroxy will exert a more powerful (at that dosage) effect on blood sugar. I could be wrong about 200 mg of 4-hydroxy being substantial as I’ve heard of people taking 300-600 mg of it on a low carb, but I’ve also heard of people using it to enter into ketosis faster (by way of clearing blood sugar faster, or something like that - I don’t know exactly how that works though, or if it’s plausible, it’s just what I heard some people have done in practice).

I’ve also heard of, but never tried, gymnema sylvestre which is supposed to increase insulin as well. There could be other insulin mimetics out there as well… but anyways, this has worked for me.

[quote]BulletproofTiger wrote:
Pretty good results I’d say, especially since insulin was being jacked up by the stuff I was taking (CH, ALA, Cinn. Extract, 4-Hydroxy, 40 grams carbs – although my carbs were pretty low, I mean that 40 grams is much higher than someone on a keto diet, which is what I would expect if someone told me they lost 20 pounds of fat in 6 weeks and actually gained muscle and strength)[/quote]

Quick question, I thought those compounds acted in a similar fashion to Insulin, if you have agents other than Insulin doing Insulin’s job, why would the body produce more Insulin as you say?

I’m aware you frequently post sources to journals, do you have one regarding this topic?

Silverhydra,

I was under the impression that high exposure to insulin is actually the cause of Resistance as opposed to sensitivity. Isn’t that loosely how Type 2 Diabetes comes on? Over exposure to high amounts?

Mind you that would be the only time during the day I would be spiking insulin as I plan to do only veggies the remainder of the day.

As well, I’m still a little torn between the r-ALA timing. I could go with the FINiBARS, or just prior to training after the second dose of Anaconda. Not sure yet.

[quote]Darkane wrote:
Silverhydra,

I was under the impression that high exposure to insulin is actually the cause of Resistance as opposed to sensitivity. Isn’t that loosely how Type 2 Diabetes comes on? Over exposure to high amounts?

Mind you that would be the only time during the day I would be spiking insulin as I plan to do only veggies the remainder of the day.

As well, I’m still a little torn between the r-ALA timing. I could go with the FINiBARS, or just prior to training after the second dose of Anaconda. Not sure yet.
[/quote]

To my knowledge, chronic exposure to Insulin causes resistance. Acute may be beneficial.

I think of it much like how the body reacts to resistance training, the actual stimuli is pretty negative (tearing muscles), but the body’s repair is where the benefit arise from. However, if one trains all day, and there is no time to repair, damage exceeds repair, which is not a good state.

I am aware of how the body tends to upregulate in response to significant stimuli, in an attempt to balance out the body, this leads me to think that an acute pulse of Insulin would upregulate the sensitizing of Insulin, since to adapt to such a large spike, it would be beneficial to adapt to ‘get the job done’ with less Insulin in the future. (And avoid large spikes)

However, I cannot ignore the data showing over-exposure to Insulin causes resistance, I believe this may be more on the cellular level rather than pancreatic. (Cells just plain ignore Insulin, a line of defense so the chronic influx of sugars doesn’t increase intra-cellular oxidative stress? Hell, I’m just rambling now)

Your Insulin-spike-once-a-day routine is exactly the same as mine, and it has worked well for me. I usually joke that with my gynecomastia and genetic over-production of Insulin (quite carb-intolerant at the wrong times) that I can overtly monitor hormones :), I can handle carbs a HELL of a lot better when I follow this spiking routine, which leads me to believe that it does sensitize one to Insulin.

@ Darkane: Exposure to insulin does not cause type 2 diabetes. It’s largely to do with being overweight:

Fat cells have fewer insulin receptors (the place where insulin binds to open the cell to glucose) than muscle cells.

Fat cells release free fatty acids, and free fatty acids interfere with glucose metabolism.

Excess glucose that canâ??t be used by the cells for energy is stored as body fat, increasing the cellular mass that the pancreas is trying to â??feedâ?? via insulin. In overweight people, insulin production is increased to meet

But there are also other factors that contribute to the disease. Inactive lifestyle is a big one as is heredity.

Also R-ALA is not the best way to go about reducing blood sugar, not that I’m saying it won’t help at all, it’s just that cinnamon extract and 4-hydroxy are better bang for your buck supplements in that regard.

[quote]silverhydra wrote:
Quick question, I thought those compounds acted in a similar fashion to Insulin, if you have agents other than Insulin doing Insulin’s job, why would the body produce more Insulin as you say?

I’m aware you frequently post sources to journals, do you have one regarding this topic?
[/quote]

Yeah I like to post studies… haha.

Well, you have to consider that I’m taking both things that boost insulin, as well as things that boost the effects of insulin (insulin mimetics).

CH (casein hydrolysate) and Carbs, directly boost pancreatic release of insulin due to the nutrients that are in the blood stream (CH - from the aminos and Carbs). These should be obvious as to how they boost insulin.

4-hydroxyisoleucine works 2 ways. First, it primarily is a glucose disposal agent. Secondly (also) it is said to have a “glucose-dependent insulin-stimulating activity,” which means that it boosts insulin when taken with carbs.

The first means is the most significant. Its ability to sensitize the body to insulin and preferentially get carbohydrates go to muscle tissue versus fat - especially when taken with a carb meal (simliar to how drugs like metformin target type 2 diabetes).

Sure other things like vanadyl sulfate, chromium, and ALA etc were once popular glucose disposal agents, I don’t think they are nearly as effective as 4-hydroxy for this purpose. As far as OTC things go, it’s pretty good, and is somewhat comparable to metformin.

One study I looked examined its “possible extrapancreatic (the pancreas is the normal way insulin is boosted) effect of [4-hydroxy] on insulin signaling and action besides its previously described insulinotropic action…” I’ve looked at several over the years, but the one study I looked at (today) showed that it increases shuttling and use of glucose by muscle tissue (“increase of peripheral glucose utilization rate”) and it decreases the liver’s production of glucose (decreasing hepatic glucose production - aka glucogenesis) which is not what you want to happen around your workout time. Here’s a study for ya :smiley: http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/287/3/E463

As for ALA, I’m sure you’ve seen the studies on that, and as I mentioned above, it’s also a glucose disposal agent and purportedly has “nutrient partitioning” effects. Most people use it before high carb meals. I’m not convinced however that it is a major benefit. See the following study http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/92/1/50 but of course there are studies to the contrary to those referenced in the receptormax article http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/product_information/special_report_the_all_powerful_supplement

Like I eluded to earlier though some people use glucose disposal agents to drop into ketosis faster, if following a ketogenic diet, but I don’t really like the idea of using these types of things when low-carbing it. As you see above, I use them when I do a targeted ketogenic diet, and only take them with carbs.

Oh, and about cinnamon the receptormax article had some pretty good studies about it. I’ve seen a bunch of good things about cinnamon and nothing bad, so I have no reason to doubt it. This is not the most independent source, but it’s got some interesting info: http://www.cinnulinpf.com/more_info.html Essentially cinnamon (water soluble portion) increases insulin signaling pathways (the ones responsible for improved body composition).

Very cool stuff BPT. Thanks for that!

No problem!

I was unaware of 4-hydroxy’s ability to actually stimulate Insulin as well as aid in disposal, quite interesting.

Ok so where can we get the 4 hydroxy ? And what brand of cinnulin pf are you using ?