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Quick Westside Question..

I am starting westside for skinny bastards and was looking for a quick reccomendation.

My ‘problem’ is that my max bench is still really low(160 pounds). In all examples I have saw him use the jumps between warmup sets is like usually 10-15 pounds. IF I were to use jumps like this I would end up lifting very little total poundage in a workout. I was wondering then if someone could reccomend how they would pyramid up to such low weights.

I realize it is a balance between getting enough volume and not over-fatiguing yourself before your max effort attempt.

use 5 pound jumps

[quote]Helix wrote:
I am starting westside for skinny bastards and was looking for a quick reccomendation.

My ‘problem’ is that my max bench is still really low(160 pounds). In all examples I have saw him use the jumps between warmup sets is like usually 10-15 pounds. IF I were to use jumps like this I would end up lifting very little total poundage in a workout. I was wondering then if someone could reccomend how they would pyramid up to such low weights.

I realize it is a balance between getting enough volume and not over-fatiguing yourself before your max effort attempt.

[/quote]

work by using percentages instead of strict strict weights increments. look up some of the westside programs here or on elitefts.com (the ones by dave tate) and you’ll see how the program is developed according to percentages vs. actual weight

[quote]hoosierdaddy wrote:
Helix wrote:
I am starting westside for skinny bastards and was looking for a quick reccomendation.

My ‘problem’ is that my max bench is still really low(160 pounds). In all examples I have saw him use the jumps between warmup sets is like usually 10-15 pounds. IF I were to use jumps like this I would end up lifting very little total poundage in a workout. I was wondering then if someone could reccomend how they would pyramid up to such low weights.

I realize it is a balance between getting enough volume and not over-fatiguing yourself before your max effort attempt.

work by using percentages instead of strict strict weights increments. look up some of the westside programs here or on elitefts.com (the ones by dave tate) and you’ll see how the program is developed according to percentages vs. actual weight

[/quote]

I have read “the bible” and the eight keys but I don’t see Dave ever giving max effort warmup in terms of %. I remeber reading one article of elitefts that said atleast 2 sets should be at > 90% intensity.

If you wouldnt mind pointing me in the right direction it would be greatly appreciated(I may just be blind, and if I am I apologize).

You could also do multiple sets (don’t overdo it) with a particular weight.

Multiple sets at weight a little below max correct?
Can anyone provide an example of how they would work up?

Use smaller jumps in weight

[quote]Helix wrote:
Multiple sets at weight a little below max correct?
Can anyone provide an example of how they would work up?[/quote]

I meant not too close to your max.

So, for your 160 max something like: sets x reps
bar 1x10
65 1x8
85 2x5
100 2x5
115 2x3 You could do 3 sets if you think you really need to but probably won’t need to.
130 1x2
145 1x1
Go for 160 and then PR

This is just one example. You may need to tweak it depending on how it feels for you. This would be for a ME day Westside style. It would be different if you were making it an actual test day. And then your high rep day is on the next bench day. You should try all the examples people gave you and see which ones you like.

I have tried it once before and I did a lot of sets near my max (something like this):

Bar x 10
105x5
135x5
140x3
145x3
150x3
155x3(MAX)

I found though that I was having trouble progressing. I think jumping by only 5 pounds near my max really killed the attempt. Perhaps 1 set within 90% of that max with the rest being outside that range?

[quote]Helix wrote:
I have tried it once before and I did a lot of sets near my max (something like this):

Bar x 10
105x5
135x5
140x3
145x3
150x3
155x3(MAX)

I found though that I was having trouble progressing. I think jumping by only 5 pounds near my max really killed the attempt. Perhaps 1 set within 90% of that max with the rest being outside that range?[/quote]

Yes. Just to be clear you are talking about a 1 rep max, right? Or were you saying you went 155 x 3 then you did your 1 RM?

No, following WSFSB you work up to a 3 Rep Max and not a 1 Rep Max.

Helix

Don’t do too many sets too close to your attempt. My max for 3 reps is right at 200 so my attempt before it is 20 pounds lighter.

Also make sure to give yourself 3-4 minutes rest before your PR set.

Just do more warmup sets at around the 45-135 range with an emphasis closer to the 45.

also here is what Defranco has on his website


In my ?skinny bastard? program I recommend that you perform at least five total sets for your max effort exercise. Weaker guys seem to only perform 1 or 2 warm-up sets before their max attempt. For some reason, most of them feel as if it?s a badge of honor to warm-up with 135 or 185 pounds. Remember that it?s not the weight that you start with, it?s the weight that you finish with! Skinny guys also need the extra volume to help pack on some muscle mass ? 1-3 sets of low reps just won?t cut it.

Anyway, here?s a sample warm-up for your floor press on Monday.

Bar X 10 reps
95 lbs. X 5 reps
135 lbs. X 5 reps
165 lbs. X 5 reps
185 lbs. X 3 reps
205 lbs. X 3 reps
REST 2 MINUTES
225 lbs. X 5 reps!

I think that at the 160 pound max bench range, westside is not necessary or optimal exactly as written.

I would actually recommend benching
2-3x per week but cycling 70%, 80% and 90% for the following basic parameters

With a 160 bench:

Day 1: 70% (110-115) 8-10 sets of 3.
Day 2: 80% (125-130) 6-8 sets of 3.
Day 3: 90% (145) 4-6 sets of 1-2.

Add 5 pounds to all the next time around.

However give yourself no more than 15 minutes from the start of the first work set to the start of the last work set. Push as hard (fast) as possible.

I have used Westiside principles but thinking back, I would not have used them when my bench was still below about 255-275. The 60% would have been way to light and the max effort day would not have been enough volume mainly because I wasn’t using my muscles intensely enough at that point.

I’m only saying this is what I would honestly do if I had it to do over from that level, however we’re all different and you have to choose your own path and find your best program.

MertDawg, I appreciate the suggestion but I really dont have enough confidence to build a program myself around parameters.

If you could point to me to one that follows that guideline or make a suggestion for a modification on one that already exists it would be appreciated.

[quote]Helix wrote:
MertDawg, I appreciate the suggestion but I really dont have enough confidence to build a program myself around parameters.

If you could point to me to one that follows that guideline or make a suggestion for a modification on one that already exists it would be appreciated.[/quote]

Here is Louie Simmons explanation of training by percents using 70%, 80% and 90% based on Russian research.

http://web.archive.org/web/20030228074253/http://www.liftthis.com/percentage.htm

It was an earlier form of his methodology and I truly believe it works better until your up around 100+ bodyweight and lifting raw.

Good luck!

It is interesting and I get the general theory, but again do you have any examples of it put in practice?

I should also say that for the last 7 weeks I have been doing a bill starr heavy/med/light routine and have had a fair bit of success. Everything has been improving weekly cept for my bench.

I just need a change of pace for a little bit and I want to get into the gym 4 days a week because I am on a fairly heavy bulk and want to take advantage of all the extra calories.

[quote]mertdawg wrote:
Helix wrote:
MertDawg, I appreciate the suggestion but I really dont have enough confidence to build a program myself around parameters.

If you could point to me to one that follows that guideline or make a suggestion for a modification on one that already exists it would be appreciated.

Here is Louie Simmons explanation of training by percents using 70%, 80% and 90% based on Russian research.

http://web.archive.org/web/20030228074253/http://www.liftthis.com/percentage.htm

It was an earlier form of his methodology and I truly believe it works better until your up around 100+ bodyweight and lifting raw.

Good luck!

[/quote]

good looking out mertdawg… helix this was the methodology i was talking about, i could have sworn this was somewhere on the elitefts site, if i had you looking around for nothing I apologize, but i’ve found that with alot of weaker and friends and some clients its easier to use to WSB method by incorporaing %'s to calculate the appropriate wieght to use…

mertdawg just wanted to steal all the glory :wink:

If all else fails you can go to Defranco’s website and check up under the ask joe a question section, all of his stuff is archived so there are surely some answers in there.

[quote]Helix wrote:
It is interesting and I get the general theory, but again do you have any examples of it put in practice?[/quote]

By using the techniques described above, Laura Dodd rose to become the greatest female squatter pound for pound by the Malone Formula. She squatted 545 lbs. weighing 162 lbs. at 40 years of age after only training for 5 years. Matt Dimel squatted 1010 lbs. also after 5 years of training by this method.

Not sure what you mean. Do you mean a specific program? Basically, the way I see it, its like the Westside format except that you use 70% on your fast day (instead of 60%) because at your level, 60% does not require a proportionally large amount of muscle recruitment, you use 90% for 4-6 x 2 (again because at your level, 90% fr singles also don’t involve as much muscle recruitment) and you also include the 80% day, but may want to stick to 2 workouts/week if you think your overtraining. Just do 70% and 80% on week 1, 90% and 70% on week 2 and 80% and 90% on week 3.