T Nation



First off a bit of information about my situation to put everything in context. I have a lot of weight to lose to get down to my goal weight, but I want to take it slowly so I don't lose strength and muscle mass along the way. In fact I want to gain a good deal of strength (although not necessarily muscle mass). I am training for the discus throw again, and my goal is to qualify for the US Championships in 2005 (and possibly the Olympic Trials in 2004). With this in mind I think the best diet for my situation would be JB's "Don't Diet" diet. As I am also in medical school and need all the mental clarity I can muster so a diet that allows more carbohydrates would be preferable to a ketogenic diet.

According to my calculations I need about 4000 KCal (I'm carrying a lot of LBM) which would be 400 grams of carbohydrates if 40% comes from carbs. With only 3 meals of P+C per day, and one of those being the 49 grams of Carbs in a serving of Surge that leaves only 2 meals to get 350 gram of carbohydrates. Of course I will get some carbs in the other meals (especially if I eat beans with them), but that seems like a massive amount of carbohydrates to eat in two meals, especially if coming from clean sources. For the first meal it would come from the carbs in a MRP, oatmeal, and fruit. For the second (1 hour post-workout) it would probably come from berries, yogurt, and a cereal of some type.

My Questions are this:
1. Will I be able to lose bodyfat on this high of a KCal diet, the numbers that JB's formulas showed? My guess is yes, because my food choices were so messed up prior to training again and the fact that I will be burning a lot of energy during my training for the throws. Of course I will keep track of my weekly weight loss and adjust accordingly.
2. Is the 400 grams of carbohydrates too high?
3. Is it excessive to get 350 grams of carbohydrates (minus minimal carbs from P+F meals) in two meals? If this is exessive should I add an additional P+C meal or drop the carb grams?
4. Does the workout/post-workout Surge drink count as a meal itself or does the Surge drink plus the post-workout meal 1 hour later count as one meal?
5. What type of cereal is considered good for post-workout? I seem to remember hearing Kellog's Smart Start at one time, but I'm not sure.

Thanks for any advice.


Hi, MD, just a hit n' run, here, not answering all of your questions, but I'm sure others will stop by.

First off, when people are trying to lose weight, it's helpful to make the metabolic shift from being what I call a "sugar burner" into a "fat burner." Who doesn't want to burn stored BF? I know you have concerns about ketogenic diets and their lack of carbs because you need mental clarity, but one of the advantages of being a fat burner and restricting carb quantity and quality is sustained levels of mental clarity and focus. The one other thing, no matter which diet you choose, which would help with mental clarity would be PowerDrive, or at least some of the components.

Please take another look at T-Dawg 2.0. It's carb restricted, yes, which would put you into a fat burning mode, but not overly or excessively so. And yes, I think 400g of carbohydrates is a high number unless you're involved in a significant number of hours per day of athletic activity that calls upon glycolytic energetic pathways; boxing, sprinting, football, hockey, to name a few.

The reaons I lean towards carb restriction to some degree when cutting/dieting is that any time you spike insulin, you kick your body out of lipolysis (fat mobilizing mode) and lipogenesis (fat burning mode).

And just answering one of your questions, I treat Surge as a meal and eat a whole-food meal 1.5 hours later.

Whatever you do, I wish you all the best. If you decide to give T-Dawg a go, we could experiment with higher carb levels on days you work out (if it's for extended or longer periods of time). I know you have a lot of LBM, and tweaking the numbers a bit might be appropriate if (physical) energy levels start to suffer.


yeah i thin 400g of CHO is pretty heafty but assuming you are going to go with the 400g of carbs, you could alway have another meal. 6 meals is not carved in stone have a 2nd postworkout meal 45-60 minute later then continue on as per norm
7-8 meals maybe nessecary,


I've reread some of the articles by JB and in one of the Massive Eating articles he recommended a 40% Protein, 30% Carbohydrate, and 30% Fat break down. At 4000 KCal this would be 400 g Protein, 300 g Carbs, and 133 g Fat. The lower carbs would be more manageable. Then tonight while reading the Carb Roundtable in the latest print issue of T-Mag he mentions keeping protein and fat intake constant and working with the carbohydrate amount as needed to continue to lose weight. His recommendation of 1.5 g protein/lb. bodyweight would put me at 400 g protein (based on my goal weight of 265, not on my present weight). His recommendation of .5 g fat/lb. bodyweight would put me at 133 g. So based on this is looks like my protein and fat amounts I was figuring were right on, and I'll just have to tweak the carbs as needed. Is my line of thinking right on this? I'm going to try to work up a menu this week and start it next week after my Surge arrives.


MD, it sounds like a good plan. With the Atkins diet you start at 20g of carbs per day (Induction) to make the metabolic shift to fat burner and then add more carbs in slowly to find the level of carb intake that allows you to continue losing weight. You're doing the opposite, starting high and working your way down. The benefit I can see is that your athletic performance won't suffer.

The cutting version of JB's Massive Eating diet is called the Don't Diet diet. Same P+F and P+C concepts, just lower calories.

Good luck to you!!!