Questions and Answers.

[quote]sen say wrote:

[quote]FarmerBrett wrote:
Not to be contrary, but in an effort to trim down extraneous stuff don’t get too carried away with it like I have in the past and just do the big 3 + OH press and chins.

Too limited a selection of exercises can mean missing the smaller muscles and possibly lead to injuries down the line, so make sure you have enough exercises in your repertoire to balance horizontal and vertical push and pull for example.[/quote]

I was a Waterbury Fanboy for several years. Did nothing but big, basic, compound movements…believed it when Chad told my I didn’t have to do curls to get big arms…have since re-considered.

One problem I face as I get older is motivation…one thing I do to stay motivated is keep it simple. I squat, deadlift and bench. I find some variation of these 3 will provide me with pretty much everything I need in a workout. BUT…facing motivation problems more and more I’ve gone back to doing exercises I LIKE to do…curls, french presses…flies…I cranak up some 80’s hair metal and pretend I’m back in the high school gym lifting for football season!

I’ve realized I probably won’t ever deadlift 500 pounds or hit 10% bodyfat…I keep my movements/workouts simple to make sure I get to the gym everyday and enjoy what I do there.

[/quote]

I think i could easily be influenced by Chad Waterbury at the moment where he is talking about working with gymnasts–beacuse that is the nearest thing to my highest aspirations for overall fitness and strength ie related to being a climber.
Tempting to go down his route of 1 big lift and then nearly all bwe–will be fascinating to see what his new routines look like.

I believe that it comes down to what you want out of your training. What your goals are and how you are going to achieve them.
It also has to be said, that the majority of people at gyms don’t focus on big simple exercises as they are hard. Its easier to do leg extensions than squats, hamstring curls instead of R.D.L’s etc.

Maraudermeat hit the nail on the head with what is the purpose of the lift? Sticking to the lifts and the programs is another point as people jump on and off programs without giving them a chance to yield results.
Dumb it down, lift heavy and often.

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
whenever i set up a training cycle everything i do has a very specific purpose. I have people PM me all the time asking me to look over their plans and the first thing i do is ask why each lift is in there. If it doesn’t have a very specific purpose then it’s not needed.

My training is fairly basic. I have lifts that make me stronger, lifts that target weak points and then i do complexes or circuits for hypertrophy and conditioning. The really only tricky part is all of the trial and error that goes into finding movements that actually make me stronger.

Not sure if that answered your question but that’s my 2 cents. [/quote]

I’m in total agreement here. It’s about knowing the “why” behind what you’re doing. I see and read about too many people choosing their goals around their training and not the other way around. They might read about something cool or see the latest article here on T-Nation and want to immediately implement it. But in reality if it doesn’t fit your goals then you shouldn’t be doing it.

I love the premise of this thread. I learn a LOT from reading all of your logs but this really simplifies things. I also really like that the the questions and answers are really aimed towards our demographic. Thanks for starting this thread!

james

[quote]big nurse wrote:
Sorry…lost me there mrs snaps !!
[/quote]

http://www.charlespoliquin.com/ArticlesMultimedia/Articles/Article/235/The_Structural_Balance_Factor.aspx

Atypical ,thanks i hadn’t had the time to do a specific search and it completely threw me !

[quote]atypical1 wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
whenever i set up a training cycle everything i do has a very specific purpose. I have people PM me all the time asking me to look over their plans and the first thing i do is ask why each lift is in there. If it doesn’t have a very specific purpose then it’s not needed.

My training is fairly basic. I have lifts that make me stronger, lifts that target weak points and then i do complexes or circuits for hypertrophy and conditioning. The really only tricky part is all of the trial and error that goes into finding movements that actually make me stronger.

Not sure if that answered your question but that’s my 2 cents. [/quote]

I’m in total agreement here. It’s about knowing the “why” behind what you’re doing. I see and read about too many people choosing their goals around their training and not the other way around. They might read about something cool or see the latest article here on T-Nation and want to immediately implement it. But in reality if it doesn’t fit your goals then you shouldn’t be doing it.

I love the premise of this thread. I learn a LOT from reading all of your logs but this really simplifies things. I also really like that the the questions and answers are really aimed towards our demographic. Thanks for starting this thread!

james[/quote]

On the walk-in to work tonight (running too late to get to the gym) i took the time to try to formulate an intelligible overview of what i think my goals are and with my limited time of experience so far to see whether i could match what i am doing to waht i am trying to achive.

However this is where it starts to break down because my core goals just aren’t specific enough eg:
That an early goal (hard to even call it that) was simply to NOT be like most of the men of my age in my town ie soft fat weak and heding rapidly towards early ill health.
When i started this whole fitness idea my main idea was simply to lose weight, be healthier, fitter–and that has now been replaced by better knowledge ie that weight itself isn’t that importnat a parameter and that fitness is a very slippert thing to define.

However what did come out of my early ‘self assessment’ where i could define some aspects of fitness i could see that what i lacked most (amongst a whole load of things) was basic strength --which is why i started to lift weights and everything then pointed towards whole body exercises, whole body workouts, big (relative) weights…literally going as heavy and hard as possible.

So in some way my goals have been transformed by the actual training itself eg i can now say that a measureable change in my fitness (strength) is the amount of iron i can get off the floor etc.
I do like the idea of specific SMART goals but it hasn’t worked out so far in being able to actually define them.

It’s easy to turn those to be really specific. And they don’t have to be all that specific to be honest. “I want to get below waist size X” (where X is a number, obviously) is a great pretty general goal.

What I do is think of a theme and pick goals that support that goal. For example, I just want to be more athletic. So to me that means being strong, agile, and fit enough to run around without passing out. So I set strength goals, goals around my ability to do certain mobility drills, and goals around being able to run. If I wanted powerlifting goals then I would pick strength goals as primary and mobilty work would have to support my strength goals. If I wanted to get into bodybuilding then I would have specific size goals but not strength goals.

My advice is to pick a general theme and then make sure that everything you do fits that theme.

james

[quote]atypical1 wrote:
It’s easy to turn those to be really specific. And they don’t have to be all that specific to be honest. “I want to get below waist size X” (where X is a number, obviously) is a great pretty general goal.

What I do is think of a theme and pick goals that support that goal. For example, I just want to be more athletic. So to me that means being strong, agile, and fit enough to run around without passing out. So I set strength goals, goals around my ability to do certain mobility drills, and goals around being able to run. If I wanted powerlifting goals then I would pick strength goals as primary and mobilty work would have to support my strength goals. If I wanted to get into bodybuilding then I would have specific size goals but not strength goals.

My advice is to pick a general theme and then make sure that everything you do fits that theme.

james[/quote]

James, yes indeed i am just beginning to see how that would actually work. I think i already have a very different knowledge base now than even 6 months ago .

My betters have given wise answers…
I have 2 points:

“no wise fish would go anywhere without a porpoise.”

Arnold’s Big 6 suit my current condition and porpoises…

Sorry guys n gals me again.

Practical question time.

I just tried to order some Biotest supplements to then have shipped into the Uk. Ordering is fine until it comes to shipping costs when the ordering system immediately adds a whopping 75 us dollars to ship to the uk.

That does seem staggeringly expensive given that i would then have to pay the Uk vat at 20% as well.

Anyone tried shipping into the uk ? any ideas ?

Feedback time.

Since posting the original question i managed to have a really nice unplanned holiday where i could kick back a bit and give everything a re=think.

Firstly : thanks for the feedback,it does help.

Changes.:
Ok so i have changed things around some. The core of my training work will still be based around the 3 big lifts ie deadlift.squat and bench. I have added in an overhead press (amazingly weak at this stage) and rows–at the moment as in bent over barbell row and bench supported db rows.

Thinking about what marauder meat said (goals) i have even set out goals for the rest of this year :
Right now–get rid of some body fat, aim is to be < 16% over the next 5 weeks and i am working to a plan that should be supporting that.
Then…gain lean mass without adding fat again.

Actual lifting goals :
Deadlift …3 big plates (140kg metric) by the end of the year
Squat…body weight squat ditto.
Bench…60kg for reps and a 65kg double.
Ohp/push press …40kg would be really nice.

Then : some learning goals :
Continue trying to develop my front squat.
Learn the kb moves as per Pavel Tatsouline.

Now …tech question time.

As i push my deadlift harder i seem to hit new problems each time :
At 140kg i just couldn’t break the weight off the ground…not a problem ,i take that as being simply my limit right now.
Problem at 135kg which i pulled for the first time this week was that i found my grip failing, now i have always used a double overhand grip but keep seeing references to a mixed over/under grip.
I have tried this and it feels all wrong–as though my whole body is twisting !!.

Any thoughts on improving grip strength ? or thoughts on double overhand vs over/under grip.

Well, there’s a good reason why it feels like your body is twisting with the mixed grip. It IS twisting. In my case, I use it to offset my scoliosis - hopefully, can’t prove it works, but one way feels better than the other.

To my knowledge, almost everyone uses a mixed grip for heavy DL. They learn to work with it. I assume they swap grips routinely to prevent body imbalances.

Have you tried hook grip?
http://www.gustrength.com/training:hook-grip-versus-alternated-grip-for-deadlifts

I cant help you any more then Meat has.

but I can tell you hook grip is fantastic- once you get used to it.
cav you might want to try it too given your history.

when I feel good- I use Dbl OH til I cant then I switch to Hook

I only use mixed grip if my hands or grip is feeling crappy
between work - its physical- and training I do allot of cleans and pulls
sometimes my grip is beat up.

Kev,Cav and Lil power thanks.

Reading through the article (thanks lil power) it might be more of a problem with grip fatigue as it happenned towards the end of the routine, and i can probably work on that.
Second problem is that the dl bar is slightly bent and unless i find the ‘top dead centre’ position it is not only pulling through my grip it is also putting enormous torque on as well.

Hook grip reminds me of something similar in climbing…in fact set me to thinking that i may still have some grip training tricks to play.

In fact …set me to thinking, thinking out loud now !.

The deadlift is pretty damn hard work and is leaving me pretty drained for a day or so after i have done a heavy (for me ) set.

I wonder whether this would work :
Setting up to dl in the squat cage with the safeties set really high, load lots of weight and just lift from a high position (thinking about knee height) and just hold the weight for a few seconds and then put the weight back down on the raills…repeat a few times.
Ie just get used to holding a heavier weight without the problem of having to break the heavy weight off the floor.

Anyway that was the outcome of this mornings walking/ponder.

Any comments ??

Rack pulls are good, do you have any jumpstretch bands? Loop one over the loaded dl bar Stand on band and pull and it will help lock out and put a lot of pull on your grip too. You don’t have to load the bar heavy.

Nurse: what you’re describing is called “rack pulls”, I believe. It’s a common technique. You’re progressing very quickly and I hope your back is strengthening to keep up with heavy weights, otherwise it could give you problems.

KM, I’ve tried hook grip for DL in the past and found it very painful. I’d be willing to learn to tolerate it, but Lil Power’s article bothers me about injury resulting from it. How do you feel it would help my scoliosis?

[quote]cavalier wrote:
Nurse: what you’re describing is called “rack pulls”, I believe. It’s a common technique. You’re progressing very quickly and I hope your back is strengthening to keep up with heavy weights, otherwise it could give you problems.

KM, I’ve tried hook grip for DL in the past and found it very painful. I’d be willing to learn to tolerate it, but Lil Power’s article bothers me about injury resulting from it. How do you feel it would help my scoliosis?[/quote]

Cav thanks
Ok–so i have just re-invented the wheel !!.
Sounds like i am at least thinking in the right direction.

Back…seemed fine on my heavy day this week. I did know about it that night and the next day but it was more of simple soreness rather than ‘back pain’. The thing that i feel i must avoid is the twisting movement–i think that might just tip things the wrong way.

Monday was a bit of a one off (actually a bit ill considered)–don’t really think it helps to lift with that degree of anger and aggression.
What it does suggest is that i could be doing some work at a higher weight for reps.

[quote]lil power wrote:
Rack pulls are good, do you have any jumpstretch bands? Loop one over the loaded dl bar Stand on band and pull and it will help lock out and put a lot of pull on your grip too. You don’t have to load the bar heavy.[/quote]

I don’t but i will look into that–thanks.

i have also re-thought some of the things i used to train with as a climber namely doing dead hangs for time and swapping hand to hand single hangs with and without heel hooks.
hanging onto a piece of rock while in a panic of trying to get some pro in was always a great incentive to have a firm grip.

So : get a grip nurse !!!

Well, advanced powerlifters attempt anger and aggression at meets to score a PR lift. But that’s a once in several months attempt. And you have to be careful that anger doesn’t make your form go crap.

It’s impressive that you don’t seem to have side effects from your heavy lifting. The first time I attempted 275, my back was cramping for days.