Questions About Peri-Workout Nutrition

Well from actual experience, consuming a large amount of soy protein can have estrogenic effects.

About 8 years ago I was preparing for a bodybuilding contest. I was in very good shape physically but mentally the diet was starting to drain me.

I have a sweet tooth and I constantly had cravings.\

I found a pudding product (wont name the brand) that had basically only protein when it comes to nutrients. I would actually mix 7 servings, make a giant pudding and eat it when I craved a sugary taste. It quickly turned to being every day.

After about 10 days I got a lot of water retention and itchy nipples. When I looked at the actual ingredients of the pudding it was all soy protein. When I stopped consuming the protein the water retention went away as did the itching.

I think that consuming a large amount of soy product can have estrogenic effect and that some people might be more at risk than others. But a small amount is likely not an issue.

However if you are looking for a source of phosphatidic acid, why not simply use MICRO-PA which is pure PA?

I would lile using Micro-PA but itā€™s a matter of costā€¦
And yes, i donā€™t know if this amount really make a difference, will try to use other sort of lecithin maybe?
Coul you just check rapidly my first post?

Honestly I passed it because itā€™s too long and you ask too many questions at the same time. It is much simpler for me to make many posts, each one asking one specific question.

Now some thingsā€¦ do not use magnesium pre-training as it can be a muscle relaxant, you can use it after the session.

I honestly never saw anything from using soy lecithin or any other lecithin in the past. I would not bother wasting money on that.

I do believe in low protein days, in fact I talked about them in an interview with Mike Mahler recently. The purpose of a low protein day is not to increase fat loss but to keep your protein sentitive to amino acids. If you always consume a high amount of protein your body actually has a decrease in anabolic boost from the protein ingested.

I believe soy granules do not contain the phyto-estrogens that other soy products have, but am not 100% sure on that.

I have actually noticed more glycogen retention w/ Micro-PA.

I didnā€™t mention that but i use magnesium post-workout and pre-bed.
Yes, itā€™s why i use it , the same principle of cycling cafeine!
Sorry for the long post, i was thinking that it could help you make a 3 in 1 answer , actually the question was if the protocol was right and if i can add when you say having protein with your last two meals during lonw protein , how much do you reccomand? ( I try to stay under 50gr of protein during the day )
Thank you for giving your time!

Iā€™ve had some great results gaining mass this year with the layers system and more recently the complete power look program (currently wrapping up week 4 of the latter). Iā€™ve gained 20 pounds (173-193), about 8-10 of which have been lean muscle, but Iā€™ve gone up to probably 18% body fat. Iā€™m going to continue eating a surplus for the rest of the power look program, but should I reduce carbs to limit continued accumulation of body fat? I think Iā€™ve been taking in too much sugar peri-workout.
Iā€™ve been eating 275-300 grams of carbs on training days and about 200 grams on off days, 285 grams of protein a day, and about 60-100 grams of fat per day. Before and during my workouts Iā€™ve been consuming 60 grams of dextrose, which I think has led to the excessive body fat accumulation. Hereā€™s what iā€™ve been doing:
Pre workout:
20 grams dextrose
24 grams whey hydrolysate

Intra workout:
40 grams dextrose
12 grams whey

Post workout:
24-36 grams whey

Iā€™m thinking of cutting back to 30 grams of dextrose and throwing in some glycine and leucine to stimulate glycogen storage in lieu of the carbs. What do you think?

I think you are using carbs from the 1990s. Why are you not using PLAZMA which is a vastly superior product, and uses carbs that actually have a lypolitic enhancing (increases fat tutilisation) property? You ask for my advice on training yet do not use the product I recommend.

Sorry Christian, should have clarified: as a 23 year old college student, Plazma is way out of my price range. Could you recommend a next-best option?

This being a Biotest-sponsored forum, Plazma is the go-to for people to recommend. On a tighter budget you can check out Surge Workout Fuel.

Myself, Iā€™ve tried Plazma, Surge Workout Fuel, and dextrose+hydrolyzed whey. The dextrose+whey may not be the best thing out there but people were getting big and strong in the 90s and itā€™s a whole lot better than not getting any peri-workout nutrition in.

I was always under the impression that pre workout you should maintain insulin levels until post workout where you would spike to shuttle nutrients and utilise insulin spike for glycogen replenishing ??
ā€¦ Am I right in thinking you guys would spike pre and during therefor not needing a post spike, as you would be utilising the insulin all the way through and partly after the workout ???

CT, Iā€™M ABOUT to begin using Indigo-3G and Micro-PA What is your recommendation for Indigo-3G for daily and timed dosage? I usually train in the late morning and consume a Finibar prior too. Thanks for your time!

Rich

Just take it first thing in the morning, thatā€™s what I do and I train in the morning

Hi coach! I know itā€™s not really the best topic to ask for but i didnā€™t find a better oneā€¦
On low protein days you recommend something like 0.3 gr of protein per pounds, right?
And you also recommend to eat a pusle before breakfast and 1/2 meals with protein at the end of the days, but when we count the protein from veggies itā€™s almost impossible to eat some protein at 1 meal and stay under .3 gr per pourds.
So what is your advice?
One more time appreciate your sharing your knowledge, have a great day!

Honestly donā€™t be anal about numbers even if you are a bit higher or lower it doesnā€™t really matter. The key is simply having a lot less protein than usual, we just want a huge contrast in protein intake. And honestly protein from veggies are incomplete proteins so it likely wont make a difference.

So you simply recommend to take 1?2? meals with 20gr of protein?
Until today , i was eating no real protein sources during the all day except a pulse first things in the morning.

just wondering since I also train in the morning, do you take Mag-10 before lifting or just stick to Plazma? I ask because sometimes I just end up drinking too much water pre-workout lol.

It actually depends on my workout. If I have more volume (e.g. lots of carries or a lot of added bodybuilding work) I only use PLAZMA but at a higher dosage (for eample 3 scoops) and if I have less volume I often go with less PLAZMA and add some MAG-10

Thatā€™s fine. Donā€™t overcomplicate things. I do recommend 0.3 - 0.4g of protein per pound of bodyweight because that is the lowest amount necessary (under normal circumstances) to not be protein-deficient on a day.

But if you are a little over or under that is not likely to be a problem because (a) itā€™s only for one day (b) the protein in MAG-10 actually have a much stronger protein-synthesis boosting effect that any other protein at the same quantity, so you can likely get by with a lower intake.

So if you are 175lbs being around 50-60g is perfectly fine. Again, donā€™t be too anal with numbers. If you normally consume 200g of protein per day, 100g still constitutes a low protein intake.

Ok, thank you a lot!
I like to be as perfect as i can in the training world itā€™s why iā€™m so analā€¦

From experience, those who try to be as perfect as possible are those who get the least results. Just making sure to be exactly right is a stress in itself and it actually makes it harder to recover.

ALL the people I know who get the most results (except on, who is a pro bodybuilder who basically do nothing except training and eating, he is rich and doesnā€™t need to work and has no stress in life) are serious about what they are doing, they follow their plan BUT they donā€™t stress over minuscule details that donā€™t matter.

Invest your mental energy on what will give you the most progress do not waste that energy on small details.

1 Like