T Nation

Questions About New TRT Plan

I finally found a new physician to help me manage my low T levels.

I am 48 years old and have had the following results pre-TRT:

FSH: 8.69 mlU/mL (range 2-9)
LH: 5.4 (up to 4.0)
Estradiol: 31.4 pg/mL (up to 40)
Testosterone: 279.1 (300-900)
Free T: 4.06 (20-40)
SHBG: 48.7 (13-71)

After bouncing between a couple of uninformed MDs, I located a new doctor who has started me on 100 mg of Depo-Testosterone weekly taken subcu in 2 divided doses (50 cc per dose). I have been on this for just under 3 weeks and feel much better. I will have blood drawn in a week and at that point, the doctor and I will discuss adding in HCG.

My question is that I am still feeling a bit of a “crash” when I am 3 days out from my last injection. The doctor said he would consider going up on the dosage, and I think doing 50 cc eod will create a much more “even” feeling. Does this make sense?

In addition, while he and I discussed managing my estradiol level if it went too high and I started feeling poorly (i.e. low libido or reduced energy), he suggested he might back down the T level instead of adding an AI. He was comfortable with my E level going as high as 40, provided I felt ok. I am thinking I might take matters on my own hands and try adding in my own AI course. I have read most of the stuff on this forum in this regard, but would still like some opinions on this subject. It sounds like there is a good option in buying liquid arimidex and dosing EOD. I have also heard that use of zinc picolinate can produce good results.

I have read about keeping E levels at 22 is optimal, but again, would like to hear more about personal experience in this area. What are the risks of taking on this aspect of TRT?

I feel like I am moving in the right direction with the injections and now just want to fine tune and get it right. I can post my new results once I have them in a week. Thanks in advance for all help and opinions.

If I were you I would take Adex on your own. (maybe start 1/4mg every other day) You will end up needing it. I’m surprised your Dr has you shooting every 3 days SC. That’s a fairly new approach and I’m surprised he’s up on it.

Just a note the liquidex works for a lot of guys on here but it didn’t for me. I needed the pills which I split in half. 22 is a good place for E2. You won’t be happy with an E2 of 40 though!

I would think you levels would be higher given your dosage.

[quote]pcgizzmo wrote:
I would think you levels would be higher given your dosage.[/quote]

Those levels are pre-TRT. Getting new levels in a week. Will post then.

[quote]brentf13 wrote:
If I were you I would take Adex on your own. (maybe start 1/4mg every other day) You will end up needing it. I’m surprised your Dr has you shooting every 3 days SC. That’s a fairly new approach and I’m surprised he’s up on it.

Just a note the liquidex works for a lot of guys on here but it didn’t for me. I needed the pills which I split in half. 22 is a good place for E2. You won’t be happy with an E2 of 40 though! [/quote]

Thanks for the views on this. Did you doc write you for the Adex? I am not sure mine will. He said he would rather back off on the T in order to reduce E, instead of adding an AI. I understand buying Adex is REALLY expensive without an RX.

Yup, I was pleased to get the subcu 2x weekly. It makes it manageable and really smooths out the levels. I think I need to go up to 150, but am primarily worrying about E levels right now.

I doubt you’ll need 150mg a week. When you use it SC you tend to need less. That was the case with me. 100mg ended up being to much. That may sound like a good thing but the higher your T goes the harder it becomes to manage E2. I’m using a blend of HCG and a compounded transdermal now and I’m real happy with it.

I buy my own Adex. My insurance doesn’t cover it and I can actually buy it a little cheaper online. I think the brand name pills are the way to go if you don’t mind the cost. At least you know what you’re getting. E2 management is hard enough without dealing with a questionable product.

[quote]brentf13 wrote:
I doubt you’ll need 150mg a week. When you use it SC you tend to need less. That was the case with me. 100mg ended up being to much. That may sound like a good thing but the higher your T goes the harder it becomes to manage E2. I’m using a blend of HCG and a compounded transdermal now and I’m real happy with it.

I buy my own Adex. My insurance doesn’t cover it and I can actually buy it a little cheaper online. I think the brand name pills are the way to go if you don’t mind the cost. At least you know what you’re getting. E2 management is hard enough without dealing with a questionable product. [/quote]

Thank you for the feedback. Are you able to buy Adex tabs online without a prescription? Legally?

I am confused about how the HCG plays into driving up E levels and have been meaning to post on this. I had thought the HCG was only used to prevent/reduce atrophy. It has a role in E as well? Can you (or someone) explain more please?

I know I will need to begin to manage E as soon as possible. Should I start before my next blood draw or wait to see what the results are?

Thanks again.

Liquid arimidex is a research chemical, no script needed and cheap. Adex tabs when available are prescription items and expensive.
HCG mimics LH/FSH which stimulates the testes to produce both T and E just as if the body was producing its own LH/FSH. The real problem occurs when the aromitase enzyme enters the picture that turns what used to be free T into E2.

Brent, I wish 150/week was “too much” for me. I don’t even notice my 200 a week anymore. Well, okay I do, but I get real calm on T shots, and some guys get wound up. So for me more T is more calm… Unless it’s in the bedroom, then more T makes me aggressive. LOL

thr61, should you hedge your bets and try a little adex? That’s a choice you’ll have to make, but if you were to consider it the cost to try it would be cheap, and the potential benefits could be huge.

I am now three weeks into my new plan (100 mg weekly divided into 2 doses, shot subcu). Have not yet started HCG or adex.

I had new labs drawn yesterday for Total T and Ultrasensitive E2. Results:

Total T: 592 (down from 597 when I was doing a one week clomid test)

E2: 36 (up from 29)

My doctor wants me in the 800-1000 range, so I have a way to go on that front. Hopefully the adex I plan to start (waiting on shipping) can get the E2 level down.

Any other thoughts or reactions to these numbers?

Thanks.

[quote]KNB wrote:
Liquid arimidex is a research chemical, no script needed and cheap. Adex tabs when available are prescription items and expensive.
HCG mimics LH/FSH which stimulates the testes to produce both T and E just as if the body was producing its own LH/FSH. The real problem occurs when the aromitase enzyme enters the picture that turns what used to be free T into E2.

Brent, I wish 150/week was “too much” for me. I don’t even notice my 200 a week anymore. Well, okay I do, but I get real calm on T shots, and some guys get wound up. So for me more T is more calm… Unless it’s in the bedroom, then more T makes me aggressive. LOL

thr61, should you hedge your bets and try a little adex? That’s a choice you’ll have to make, but if you were to consider it the cost to try it would be cheap, and the potential benefits could be huge.
[/quote]

KNB

When you say “I don’t even notice my 200 a week anymore” are you saying you have built up a tolerance to your dose and have had to increase it over time? If so do you know if this is typical?

Thanks

[quote]thr61 wrote:
I am now three weeks into my new plan (100 mg weekly divided into 2 doses, shot subcu). Have not yet started HCG or adex.

I had new labs drawn yesterday for Total T and Ultrasensitive E2. Results:

Total T: 592 (down from 597 when I was doing a one week clomid test)

E2: 36 (up from 29)

My doctor wants me in the 800-1000 range, so I have a way to go on that front. Hopefully the adex I plan to start (waiting on shipping) can get the E2 level down.

Any other thoughts or reactions to these numbers?

Thanks.[/quote]

In additon to taking your numbers into account the way you feel also should be a guide. Sense of well being (lower anxiety, handle stress better) should improve, libido should improve, strength in gym should improve. I think it is better to overshoot the target range for free and total test then back down if needed. If you are starting to think about sex so much that it is becoming a distraction to your other activities, then it may be time to back down on the injection amount.

Also if you fel fine at a higher test range, say > 1000, make sure you “accidentaly” miss a shot before you schedule another test so your doc doesn’t use the results to lower your dosage. I’d ask the doc to go up to 150 mg/ml on the test and maks sure you get the AI and HCG going

Thanks for the input. I have a call planned for Monday to review results. My goal is to go to 50mg 3x weekly and to add HCG. He won’t support adex, but I have ordered my own liquid and will be starting that as soon as it arrives.

Next blood test is in 3 weeks, so I will be interested to see what those numbers are like. It is a bit weird playing Dr. Science with my own body, but so it goes…

You’ll discover after time and after you gain more knowledge that you are your own best Dr. Sad but true.

Adex in pill form is a prescription med. I had a script for it a while ago and just found that it can be purchased abroad for $20 or so less, including shipping, than what I pay here. I’m legally able to import it because I have a script but it’s not required. I doubt you are going to be taken away in cuffs for purchasing a breast cancer medication.