T Nation

Questions about Hormones


#1

Just a few quick questions for the knowledgeable folk:

1) What does a natural day's testosterone cycle look like, roughly?
2) If you take, say, 10mg Dianabol in the AM, how does that effect said testosterone cycle?
3) What other things effect testosterone levels, and how significant are these changes?(Specifically: sex, a good night's sleep, a nap, a hard workout, going out in the sun, etc.)
4) If you are in a heightened/elevated hormonal state, either from one of the above activities or the Dianabol, it's an excellent time to eat a ton of protein because most of it will go directly to muscle building. <--Is that statement true or false?
5) I'm on my first steroid cycle. Why do I feel like shit when I wake up from an afternoon nap? (What happens to your hormones during a nap?)
6) What effect, if any, do steroids have on growth hormone levels?

Thanks in advance,
-Dave


#2

I actually sat and wrote out the answers to the best of my knowledge - some i researched a little too! How nice for me… I generally use posts like this to find any interesting topics which i will research further for my own purposes, however i am not about to be your research assistant.

It is pure laziness to sit at you computer and expect some stranger to answer your ‘wonderings’ free of charge just because you barked them out. Ignorant arrogance at it’s finest.

Are you aware that the answers to the vast majority of the questions you asked are to be found online through basic searching? This is what most do when they have questions or want to further themselves. You expect to be fed through a tube.

I included the answer to the first of your question as a present - from me to you. Isn’t that nice now? Yea…


#3

I had a list of about 20 questions, spent a week researching them, and narrowed it down to these last few before I posted here.

If people aren’t willing to share knowledge, what are forums for?

Thanks for the graph.


#4

[quote]daveinthailand wrote:
What are forums for?
[/quote]
Discussing common knowledge and entertainment mainly.

I use them to further my own knowledge using the techniques given above - i personally won’t be giving you the answers to your list as i KNOW that it took me 20mins, a base knowledge and google to find the answers - Maybe if there was some discussion or personality there i would have had a conversation with you and helped out any queries you had. Sharing knowledge - discuss common interests and such, you know, what forums are for.

But no, you just want your list answering. Well, not by me and instead of ignoring your post i think it more useful to let you know why some will not help you - so you can change that next time. or not.

YOU fucking prick…


#5

I’m a member of a couple of forums where I am the knowledgeable one–and I’m always happy to answer newbies’ questions. Come on, karma…

Actually, I guess these are difficult questions, and there may be no solid answers for some of them. I’ll go Google some more. In the meantime, can anyone help?


#6

Look. let me explain my point one more time as i can see you don’t get it.

I found your post rude. With such a low post count you would do very well to actually speak to people - introduce yourself, explain why you want the information, what you have learned - as i said - sharing information rather than demanding it in a list format.

If you don’t give a fuck about being personable with those you seem to EXPECT to help you (in some quest that is apparently a secret) then i personally wont be inclined to help and i will happily leave your thread for anyone else to help out.

If you can do that, then i would be happy to give the answers that i had, which are only to the best of my knowledge without too much running around online. As i pointed out the first time - topics connected to your questions aren’t too difficult to find IME and i struggle to believe you searched for a whole week (was that 8 hours a day or what?) before asking here.

I cannot promise what i know is anything different to what you already know - but i prefer polite conversation over assumed co-operation. Maybe it is just me?


#7

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


#8

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
I’ll answer one of your questions at least :wink:

No, being on dianabol is not a good time to eat a shedload of protein, because dbol is a class II steroid and therefore does not trigger the androgen receptor to create new protein. However it may (I’m honestly not sure - just got back from an HIIT session and my brain has yet to catch up) increase nitrogen balance, meaning that more protein may be stored in the body.

BBB[/quote]

Thanks for that, mate.


#9

[quote] Brook wrote:
Look. let me explain my point one more time (snip) I cannot promise what i know is anything different to what you already know - but i prefer polite conversation over assumed co-operation. Maybe it is just me?[/quote]

So if I understand you correctly, you were offended because my first post didn’t introduce myself or say why I wanted the information?

OK, well, I’m Dave. I live on the beach in Thailand near Samet Island. I’m school teacher and I’m kind of into bodybuilding. A friend told me recently that steroids were available over the counter here, so after a little research I started a cycle. This got me thinking about hormones and how steroids effect them. I found out everything I needed to know about GH and insulin, presumably because these are popular topics on the blogosphere right now. The questions in the OP were the last ones I had. Actually, I’m a do-it-yourself type, and don’t like posting questions if I can find the answers on Google; my google-fu is usually strong, but failed me here.

Apologies if I broke T-Nation board etiquette by not providing this background information from the start.


#10

You’re ‘kind of’ into bodybuilding, but decided to start using AAS?

:confused:


#11

[quote]daveinthailand wrote:
Just a few quick questions for the knowledgeable folk:

  1. What does a natural day’s testosterone cycle look like, roughly?
  2. If you take, say, 10mg Dianabol in the AM, how does that effect said testosterone cycle?
  3. What other things effect testosterone levels, and how significant are these changes?(Specifically: sex, a good night’s sleep, a nap, a hard workout, going out in the sun, etc.)
  4. If you are in a heightened/elevated hormonal state, either from one of the above activities or the Dianabol, it’s an excellent time to eat a ton of protein because most of it will go directly to muscle building. <–Is that statement true or false?
  5. I’m on my first steroid cycle. Why do I feel like shit when I wake up from an afternoon nap? (What happens to your hormones during a nap?)
  6. What effect, if any, do steroids have on growth hormone levels?

Thanks in advance,
-Dave [/quote]

  1. That is already posted - we have a circadian rhythm of T high in the morning, falls through the day with a lower peak in the afternoon. It is thought this rhythm has evolved to mirror that of cortisol and help override the catabolic activity of cortisol

  2. Take it in the morning and it is out of your system by the afternoon/evening. The high steroid levels through the day will prevent testosterone secretion by testes during the day. Testosterone may/may not be secreted during the night/early hours of morning as a response to low testosterone levels that follow (depends how lucky you are with your genes) .ie if you are lucky you will still have a highish morning T but nothing in the afternoon.

  3. All of those should increase T to varying extents. Though the workout is dependent upon factors such as exercise type, intensity etc. The greatest strength gains in athletes have been shown to come after a series of workouts that maximize T secretion. The type of workout that enhances T is individual in athletes and cannot be predicted (some hypertrophy, some power, some strength type work)

  4. Testosterone primary mode of action could be more accurately termed as an anti catabolic. Increases in testosterone concentration allow cells to re-utilse amino acids and no increase in the uptake of amino acids occur. It also has a local muscular effect of increasing IGF1 and other similar growth factors, this produces a secondary anabolic effect.

  5. You probably feel like shit because you are napping too long. You may be waking yourself during a REM cycle. You need to sleep around 20 min or so only and wake naturally

  6. Without researching I am unsure on the effects of T on HGH. It does though increase IGF1 - increasing the levels of T of older men to those of 20 yr olds returns IGF1 to the levels of 20 year olds also.


#12

[quote]DOHCrazy wrote:
You’re ‘kind of’ into bodybuilding, but decided to start using AAS?

:confused:[/quote]

I say “kind of” because my main interests are sports-related–Oly lifting and parkour. And I think that AAS, used in moderation, have numerous health benefits: http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sex_news_sports_funny_grok/steroids_for_health_1


#13

@Cymru:
You, sir, are awesome. Thank you very much.


#14

[quote]Cymru wrote:
2) Take it in the morning and it is out of your system by the afternoon/evening. The high steroid levels through the day will prevent testosterone secretion by testes during the day. Testosterone may/may not be secreted during the night/early hours of morning as a response to low testosterone levels that follow (depends how lucky you are with your genes) .ie if you are lucky you will still have a highish morning T but nothing in the afternoon.
[/quote]

This, however, doesn’t appear to be the case. Based on energy and libido, my morning and evening Test aren’t being effected. Why would that be?


#15

[quote]daveinthailand wrote:
Cymru wrote:
2) Take it in the morning and it is out of your system by the afternoon/evening. The high steroid levels through the day will prevent testosterone secretion by testes during the day. Testosterone may/may not be secreted during the night/early hours of morning as a response to low testosterone levels that follow (depends how lucky you are with your genes) .ie if you are lucky you will still have a highish morning T but nothing in the afternoon.

This, however, doesn’t appear to be the case. Based on energy and libido, my morning and evening Test aren’t being effected. Why would that be?

[/quote]

Three possibilities your dose is low (what is it?) and therefore not preventing secretion of GrH and thus LH and T. Secondly how do you know that your perceived energy is not a remnant side effect of steroids and is down to your own testosterone? Lastly you may just be lucky with good genes, but if this is the case enough dianabol for long enough will still shut you down


#16

[quote]daveinthailand wrote:
Cymru wrote:
2) Take it in the morning and it is out of your system by the afternoon/evening. The high steroid levels through the day will prevent testosterone secretion by testes during the day. Testosterone may/may not be secreted during the night/early hours of morning as a response to low testosterone levels that follow (depends how lucky you are with your genes) .ie if you are lucky you will still have a highish morning T but nothing in the afternoon.

This, however, doesn’t appear to be the case. Based on energy and libido, my morning and evening Test aren’t being effected. Why would that be?

[/quote]

10mg taken at 7 am will be 5mg at 10am, 2.5mg at 1pm, 1.25mg at 4pm, negligible by the evening.


#17

Here is what i wrote to add to ‘Wales’ effort - it is similar but differs on some respects;

  1. Very little - not enough to cause suppression of any noticeable degree. You will already be benefiting from the early AM pulse when you dose the Dbol, this will be at a negligible level by late afternoon.
    Search methandrostenolone, HPTA inhibition, hypogonadism, single AM dose - things like that.

  2. All the things you mentioned. However this is negligible in terms of performance increases - until… you train with weights. Now coupled with the stimulation that damaged cells cause - increases of IGF, GH and Testosterone all have beneficial effects on anabolism.

  3. AAS do increase protein synthesis - however if the increase is 50mcg-500mcg from whatever activity - you aren’t going to be laying down slabs of muscle any time soon IIRC the male level is from 2.5mg/day to 11mg/day - so any activity isn’t going to be releasing anything near those amounts.
    Google anabolic hormone levels following sex/exercise etc.

  4. I would look toward diet and lifestyle first - plus i would be aware that this is common for most people if they ‘nap’ longer than 15mins.
    High androgen levels could be an issue i guess - i would google something like AAS and REM sleep or some other such search.

  5. Not sure on that one at all.

JJ


#18

[quote]Cymru wrote:
Three possibilities your dose is low (what is it?) and therefore not preventing secretion of GrH and thus LH and T. Secondly how do you know that your perceived energy is not a remnant side effect of steroids and is down to your own testosterone? Lastly you may just be lucky with good genes, but if this is the case enough dianabol for long enough will still shut you down[/quote]

First, thanks for taking the time.

My dose is 10mg, taken upon waking. Sounds low, but it was Zeigler’s original suggestion, and I’m setting PR’s with it, so it’ll do for now.

“Perceived energy” is an excellent way of putting it. How do I know anything aside from my own perception? I assume that energy and libido felt 12+ hours after a small dose of steroids is my own Test, but that could be wrong. Actually, isn’t 10mg taken by experienced people as a “bridge” after a cycle precisely because it doesn’t shut you down?


#19

Brook any chance you could get me the reference regarding the literature on steroids increasing protein synthesis? I am currently writing a review of this literature and have nothing on this, evidence I have indicates that no increase in protein uptake occurs with steroid use. The paper below is a good example of the info I have;

“In healthy men testosterone injections have been shown to increase protein synthesis with no affect on amino acid transportation. This indicates that testosterones modality in increasing muscle mass are associated with the reutilisation of intracellular amino acids and not an increase in the influx of amino acids”

Testosterone injection stimulates net protein synthesis but not tissue amino acid transport" Ferrando et al 2002 American Journal of Physiol and Endo Metab

I need to ensure I cover all aspects and have missed this. Anything you have is much appreciated. Thanks


#20

Nope :wink: