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Questions About Creatine

Ok, I admit it, I’m a n00b. Until recently I was also a n00b only worried about doing curls and pull ups. So I’m a n00b with a weak chest and tri’s.

Here’s the question. Based on things I’ve read, and Surge, I’m assuming that after you workout your body is primed for delivering nutrients into your body thus the need for protein and simple carbs (Surge). Can I also assume that your body will favor muscles that you just worked?

Here’s where I’m going with this. I want to even out my chest and tri’s (in this example) with the rest of my body as quickly as possible. So if I load creatine (I’ve never used it) right after say a chest and tri day will the creatine be targeted more into those parts, helping muscle recovery and aiding in my next chest and tri workout? So that I even out more and can then advance in more of an all around way?

Or would it be better to just load like normal, and continue to work everything as completely as possible, and let them advance at their own rate?

I hope that makes sense.

Your logic with the creatine timing is flawed. It will be available for all muscles to use in a given workout. This will ‘potentially’ help your chest/tris, but it will also be available to your back and bis allowing them to do a bit of extra work.

The answer to your problem is prioritzing your problem areas. Work those areas2-3 times a week and your strong muscles 1-2. Whatever ratio you come up with to meet your new goals and present deficiency.

You’ll be even in no time. Good luck

Why don’t you forget about creatine for now and try doing some Deadlifts, Squats, Pull-ups and Overhead Presses. Eat lots and grow well you know the rest…

Ok, I don’t take creatine, so I can’t help you out, but if you haven’t tried using the search feature for old articles and posts, try it. Creatine has been discussed quite a bit over the years.

Also, I wanted to say that this was one of the most well-worded questions I have read, and for that, I hope people are willing to help you more than most noobs.

Good Luck, man

I know this is a hi-jack, but I just gotta respond to responses to this question. Why tell him not to use it? I know your personal feelings to it because we’ve heard it ad-nauseum but this person doesn’t. If you want to explain to him your personal beliefs-great- but the classic “lift big-eat-big” answer is a blow-off. And whats up with “hope people are willing to help you more than most noob.” Everyone is a noob at first, and I personally like to help everyone find out how great this can be. That’s why this is a BEGINNERS page. If you want to be all pretentious and scolding in tone when non-responding to the question, at least pick the correct forum

Sorry dude for the jack. I just can’t take another, basic “hit the search button” crap answer. Please choose to just not respond. Blast away

Its good that you aren’t all biceps and chest. But your creatine logic is flawed. Just take 5g a day and eat meat and fish and you’ll be fully loaded almost constantly. Don’t sweat missing a few days and make sure to find a good workout program and stick to it. Your chest/tris will even out on their own. This is more of an intermediate/advanced worry than at your stage.

[quote]sasquatch wrote:
I know this is a hi-jack, but I just gotta respond to responses to this question. Why tell him not to use it? I know your personal feelings to it because we’ve heard it ad-nauseum but this person doesn’t. If you want to explain to him your personal beliefs-great- but the classic “lift big-eat-big” answer is a blow-off. And whats up with “hope people are willing to help you more than most noob.” Everyone is a noob at first, and I personally like to help everyone find out how great this can be. That’s why this is a BEGINNERS page. If you want to be all pretentious and scolding in tone when non-responding to the question, at least pick the correct forum

Sorry dude for the jack. I just can’t take another, basic “hit the search button” crap answer. Please choose to just not respond. Blast away

   [/quote]

I told him not to use it. And I’ll do it again: “DON’T USE IT.” Why am I doing this? Because that’s the best advice I can give a newb who has obviously not even come close to maxing out any of his potential by using the big lifts!

It should be first things first! I have no idea how many 150lb. kids are using creatine who have been lifting for 3 or 4 weeks/months. I have seen many in my own area sucking up the creatine and doing dumbbell kickbacks. “Hey my arms are growing I must be doing the right thing.” No, their doing the wrong thing because someone has given them bad advice!

Build a base while building your knowledge and skill level first! When you have gained plenty of muscle and experience then it might be the proper time to look for additional supplements that can further your growth. If that was an experienced lifter who was asking, I would have an entirely different response, as the situation would warrant.

I will respond everytime in that manner as it’s the correct way to respond to such a query.

Thank you ZEB. People just don’t seem to understand that building size and strength isn’t very complicated. Do the basics, eat big and clean, just work hard, and learn proper recovery.

It looks like so far the general consensus is that creatine will end up fully saturating all of the muscles eventually so there would be little point in trying to make it target certain areas first. Additionally continuing with my current heavy/compound lifting will eventually even the problem out naturally but some focus can be shifted to weaker areas in lieu of the more developed muscles to speed up the process.

Thanks for the replys, is there anything else?

[quote]sasquatch wrote:
Your logic with the creatine timing is flawed. It will be available for all muscles to use in a given workout.
[…]
The answer to your problem is prioritzing your problem areas. Work those areas2-3 times a week and your strong muscles 1-2. Whatever ratio you come up with to meet your new goals and present deficiency.
[/quote]

[quote]ZEB wrote:
for now and try doing some Deadlifts, Squats, Pull-ups and Overhead Presses. Eat lots and grow[/quote]

[quote]Garrett W. wrote:
Its good that you aren’t all biceps and chest. But your creatine logic is flawed. […] make sure to find a good workout program and stick to it. Your chest/tris will even out on their own.[/quote]

[quote]ZEB wrote:
sasquatch wrote:
I know this is a hi-jack, but I just gotta respond to responses to this question. Why tell him not to use it? I know your personal feelings to it because we’ve heard it ad-nauseum but this person doesn’t. If you want to explain to him your personal beliefs-great- but the classic “lift big-eat-big” answer is a blow-off. And whats up with “hope people are willing to help you more than most noob.” Everyone is a noob at first, and I personally like to help everyone find out how great this can be. That’s why this is a BEGINNERS page. If you want to be all pretentious and scolding in tone when non-responding to the question, at least pick the correct forum

Sorry dude for the jack. I just can’t take another, basic “hit the search button” crap answer. Please choose to just not respond. Blast away

I told him not to use it. And I’ll do it again: “DON’T USE IT.” Why am I doing this? Because that’s the best advice I can give a newb who has obviously not even come close to maxing out any of his potential by using the big lifts!

It should be first things first! I have no idea how many 150lb. kids are using creatine who have been lifting for 3 or 4 weeks/months. I have seen many in my own area sucking up the creatine and doing dumbbell kickbacks. “Hey my arms are growing I must be doing the right thing.” No, their doing the wrong thing because someone has given them bad advice!

Build a base while building your knowledge and skill level first! When you have gained plenty of muscle and experience then it might be the proper time to look for additional supplements that can further your growth. If that was an experienced lifter who was asking, I would have an entirely different response, as the situation would warrant.

I will respond everytime in that manner as it’s the correct way to respond to such a query.

[/quote]

My response to you is the same. I don’t disagree with your logic, just the way you presented it. You didn’t explain to him why. I don’t happen to feel that you wait until you’ve reached your genetic potential before trying a supp. You do, fine. But only the people who have been on awhile know your feelings.
He didn’t elaborate on his workout much, so the rest of your response is based on–what? Conjecture.
Not myself, or anybody else tried to convince him to take creatine. He asked about a particular mechanism, he should have been afforded a response in line with that question.

[quote]sasquatch wrote:
ZEB wrote:
sasquatch wrote:
I know this is a hi-jack, but I just gotta respond to responses to this question. Why tell him not to use it? I know your personal feelings to it because we’ve heard it ad-nauseum but this person doesn’t. If you want to explain to him your personal beliefs-great- but the classic “lift big-eat-big” answer is a blow-off. And whats up with “hope people are willing to help you more than most noob.” Everyone is a noob at first, and I personally like to help everyone find out how great this can be. That’s why this is a BEGINNERS page. If you want to be all pretentious and scolding in tone when non-responding to the question, at least pick the correct forum

Sorry dude for the jack. I just can’t take another, basic “hit the search button” crap answer. Please choose to just not respond. Blast away

I told him not to use it. And I’ll do it again: “DON’T USE IT.” Why am I doing this? Because that’s the best advice I can give a newb who has obviously not even come close to maxing out any of his potential by using the big lifts!

It should be first things first! I have no idea how many 150lb. kids are using creatine who have been lifting for 3 or 4 weeks/months. I have seen many in my own area sucking up the creatine and doing dumbbell kickbacks. “Hey my arms are growing I must be doing the right thing.” No, their doing the wrong thing because someone has given them bad advice!

Build a base while building your knowledge and skill level first! When you have gained plenty of muscle and experience then it might be the proper time to look for additional supplements that can further your growth. If that was an experienced lifter who was asking, I would have an entirely different response, as the situation would warrant.

I will respond everytime in that manner as it’s the correct way to respond to such a query.

My response to you is the same. I don’t disagree with your logic, just the way you presented it. You didn’t explain to him why. I don’t happen to feel that you wait until you’ve reached your genetic potential before trying a supp. You do, fine. But only the people who have been on awhile know your feelings.
He didn’t elaborate on his workout much, so the rest of your response is based on–what? Conjecture.
Not myself, or anybody else tried to convince him to take creatine. He asked about a particular mechanism, he should have been afforded a response in line with that question.[/quote]

BULLCRAP!

My response was obviously adequate given who was asking the question! And far better than any response that actually tells him about creatine.

sasquatch:

Seems that you are not as helpful as you make yourself out to be my friend! Why didn’t you simply answer the posters question?

Bootsie
03/21/05
10:07 PM
New Jersey, USA

“ok i have this nutrition class in which im supposed to list my daily diet for a week and then analyze it. Of course my diet consists of 8 meals a day focused on gaining weight, so it would be a pain in the ass to anaylze. Im wondering if anyone has a sample diet or knows where i can find one real quick that would leave me w/ a break down as follows:
15%protein
55%carbs
30%fat.
doesnt really matter how many meals or calories, so long as the numbers match w/ the percentages. i realize this is a long shot, but any help would be appreciated. thanks”

Your thoughtful reply which did not answer the posters question:

sasquatch
03/21/05
10:28 PM
Wisconsin, USA

“Take advantage of the damn class and analyze your diet. Why do you want a sample diet from this type of breakdown?”

Now why is it you didn’t answer the posters question?

[quote]ZEB wrote:
My response was obviously adequate given who was asking the question!
[/quote]

I would first like to thank everyone again for helping me understand how creatine works. Secondly I think it is important everyone understand that it is possible to be considered a beginner even after training for multiple years. I call myself a beginner because I have only been serious (read not just doing strictly curls) for the past year.

I understand that the topic has somewhat been changed into a discussion about the level of response to a given question. I am able though to hear everyone’s opinion and apply the given wisdom to my workouts. If I lead anyone to believe that I was attempting to reform myself overnight without any hard work I’m sorry.

I think we can all discuss issues at any given level of response and apply the quality information to our own lives as requiered.

Thanks Again.

ZEB

Different question. The context is not even similar. You want to go through all your responses to see hoe often you shorted someone on an answer. Was it on a beginner thread such as this one.

This was a beginners question about a particular possible outcome from using creatine. All I suggested was you expound on your r esponse so the guy knew where you were coming from.

Why the in depth investigation about each of my responses. Can you never be questioned?

I too have read through some of your responses and the central theme seems to be your answers are the end-all-be-all. Don’t dare question a Zeb response. If you even took the time to read my response, it was quite similar to yours. I just wanted you to explain it so it gives him more evidence to sift through as he comes up with a decision.

By the way, re. that particular answer to that particular post was very much the same as most responded. He took a class-didn’t want to analyze his own diet? then asked about submitting a fake diet for calculations and analization.

[quote]sasquatch wrote:
ZEB

Different question. The context is not even similar. You want to go through all your responses to see hoe often you shorted someone on an answer. Was it on a beginner thread such as this one.

This was a beginners question about a particular possible outcome from using creatine. All I suggested was you expound on your r esponse so the guy knew where you were coming from.

Why the in depth investigation about each of my responses. Can you never be questioned?

I too have read through some of your responses and the central theme seems to be your answers are the end-all-be-all. Don’t dare question a Zeb response. If you even took the time to read my response, it was quite similar to yours. I just wanted you to explain it so it gives him more evidence to sift through as he comes up with a decision.

By the way, re. that particular answer to that particular post was very much the same as most responded. He took a class-didn’t want to analyze his own diet? then asked about submitting a fake diet for calculations and analization. [/quote]

I never stated that “anything was wrong” with your response did I? I simply stated that it was not a direct answer to his question, which is what you accused me of doing. Seems that when you find it appropriate you don’t answer direct questions. So, who appointed you judge on this thread?

That particular question and answer of yours was tipped to me by another member, by the way. When I read it I thought it was pretty funny given the way you had responded to my response.

Keep this in mind, it’s not me who questioned you first. It was you who questioned me. Someone did not respond the way that you liked to a poster? Seems that you have the ego problem my friend! Were you appointed monitor of the board? No, I guess not. In the above case you became a “self proclaimed monitor.”

I have helped many people on this forum and understand that with every question there will probably be multiple replys (not always). In this case I want to be the voice of reason relative to putting in the hard work with the big movements. In your case, when you did not answer the question directly you were pointing out the posters obvious desire for someone else to do his work. That too was appropriate.

As to your direct comment: “Don’t dare question a Zeb response.” I think by now we know that no one is beyond reproach, all can make mistakes, myself included. In the past when I have been wrong, I have apologized. In this case I am correct in my response, just as you were when you did not directly answer the posters question. Sometimes an answer can question the premise of the question.

It seems you too, by the question asked by “Bootsie,” do not always answer a direct question. The fact that some others agreed with you on that thread is irrelevant. Would your advice been any less correct if you had someone hijack the thread, as you did here, and attempt to question the answer given? No, I suppose it would not have meant much. Neither does your needless interruption on this thread mean much either. It only proves that you acted in a very hypocritical manner!

ZEB

One last chime in and then you can have the last answer as you are prone to have.

Read my response to this thread again and let me know where I failed to DIRECTLY answer this person’s question.

As for Bootsie’s question, again no context once so ever to this thread, I believe it to was answered correctly and directly, albeit a bit rudely. To that, I apologize. But really, you voluntarily take an elective course that involves critiquing and analyzing your diet and you want to use someone elses info?

You are not my friend, and know nothing about me. To try to turn this around and make it personal shows the weakness of both your present argument and the shallowness of your original post. I’m glad you have a legion of fans who aid you in past thread responses, so you can
spotlight everyone elses flaws.

You talk about me being a self-appointed monitor, maybe, in this case yes. But you believe yourself to be the self-appointed voice of reason in ALL threads. Your pretentious, self grandizing–intellectual, moral, and I guess now financial–superiority over most of the rest of the members is well documented.

To the original poster:
My apologies. I hope you got some information to go with what you already knew to help you make a more informed decision.

Guilo, you’re right on track with how to fix your proportionality now. You’re right in that long-term, creatine saturation will even out throughout your muscles.

You may not need to take 5g a day, though, as many manufacturers recommend. There’s been some good research lately showing that even larger athletes probably only need 2-3g/day. If cost is a concern, you can also take a week or two off of usage here and there, as muscle saturation will remain elevated for a few weeks after you stop using it (and will go right back up to fully saturated when you start using it again).

To ZEB - If cost isn’t a major concern, and he’s getting his workout program in order as well, why not use creatine? I understand the perspective you’re coming from, and it’s flawed. True, a beginner will make good gains with a solid diet and exercise regime. Even a beginner will make BETTER progress when using appropriate supplements, such as creatine (unless he’s eating 4lbs of beef a day), vitamin C, probably magnesium and zinc, and a multi (plus whatever nutrients may be lacking in the diet, despite careful planning). Why are you opposed to getting ALL one’s ducks in a row?

-Dan

saquatch:

I think you need a bit of a break from the forum. You seem to be taking this a bit seriously. Keep in mind that it is you who initiated the original “discussion” between us. I did not "go after you? or anyone else on this thread. I simply gave the poster a few lines of good advice, which you took issue with. And keep in mind that it was you who made it personal with your cheap shots, not me.

It seems clear that you have a personal axe to grind relative to my many posts. Don’t like my political, religious or financial posts? Well, I was warned that whenever you take a political or religious stand that about half the people will love you for it and the other half hate you. Either way, why hijack a thread in order to seek some sort of vengeance? That seems rather childish. You could PM me to accomplish the same end. Do you think that grandstanding is appropriate? Can you honestly claim that you feel better now? Did you help the original poster by going off on a tangent and attacking me personally? No, then again it?s not the poster whom you care about; it?s lashing out at me which has apparently become important to you. It seems that you are the one who is “self-aggrandizing.”

To regress: Your original response to Bootsie was in fact questioning the question. It was also rude and abrupt. Is it okay for you to be rude and abrupt? Is this ?pretentious? of you?

sasquatch
03/21/05
10:28 PM
Wisconsin, USA

“Take advantage of the damn class and analyze your diet. Why do you want a sample diet from this type of breakdown?”

Since you called me out for doing almost the same thing (only far more politely) that makes you a hypocrite! None of my “friends” would have alerted me to this particular post, and I would not have posted it had you not tried to bully others regarding how they answered the original poster (there was another poster involved). Keep remembering that you are the one who initiated this “discussion” between the two of us, not me.

As to your rant regarding my alleged “superiority” over other members, I think you have mistaken my desire to help as one of superiority, and you should think again. I have no idea how old you are, but I come from a time when there was little help available. The only magazines were Joe Weiders and Bob Hoffmans. Hence, I appreciate this site and the amount of information that it offers. And they do it for FREE! Do you think we owe them anything for this?

In order to try to pay something back, aside from buying Biotest products and recommending them to all around, I try to help newbies (and others) whenever I feel that I can. If I have achieved some level of success in life (in whatever endeavor) should I not share with someone who is half my age? Would you not do the same? Along the way I have picked up many friends. I have helped people in PM (not always on a thread) with their training, and other matters. I often invite people to PM me if I think I can help. Again, it?s not about showing ?superiority?, it?s about helping those who really have no idea what they are doing and are reaching out.

In turn, as I have intimated, I have learned a great deal from some outstanding Coaches and other members, on this forum. I find myself constantly in awe of the amount of knowledge that is currently available on T-Nation (and the Internet). Maybe it?s a generational difference, I don?t know, but I can assure you that I will continue to give the best advice that I know how and also learn as much as possible.

Sorry that we had to have this sort of exchange as I am sure it was disruptive to the original poster and to those seeking advice on the topic.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I told him not to use it. And I’ll do it again: “DON’T USE IT.” Why am I doing this? Because that’s the best advice I can give a newb who has obviously not even come close to maxing out any of his potential by using the big lifts!

It should be first things first! I have no idea how many 150lb. kids are using creatine who have been lifting for 3 or 4 weeks/months. I have seen many in my own area sucking up the creatine and doing dumbbell kickbacks. “Hey my arms are growing I must be doing the right thing.” No, their doing the wrong thing because someone has given them bad advice!

Build a base while building your knowledge and skill level first! When you have gained plenty of muscle and experience then it might be the proper time to look for additional supplements that can further your growth. If that was an experienced lifter who was asking, I would have an entirely different response, as the situation would warrant.

I will respond everytime in that manner as it’s the correct way to respond to such a query.

[/quote]

That’s ridiculous…

So one should wait until they reach their genetic potential to use simple but effective supplements that are the cause of no added problems at all? So wait 15-20 years (an average time to reach one’s genetic potential) just to take advantage of an amino acid. We are talking about Creatine here, not Steroids/Prohormones. I think that viewset is just flawed.

  1. He may already be training big, with big lifts, and eating big, and ad nasueum of the “be hardcore” talk.

  2. Applying not relying on supplements such as a solid Multi-vitamin, Creatine, and such can help progess, and any safe advantage should be used, not abused.

  3. If money is not a factor there is no financial loss.

  4. There is no reason to have to max out on big lifts in order to reap the benefits of Creatine.

  5. There is no “policies” in lifting, basic proven rules are great, but there is never a “there should be or else” viewpoint, what’s good for you is not good for all.

  6. He never stated he was 150lb bicep curler, it seems from what he said that he is training propperly, with compound “hardcore” lifts…so?

  7. Despite their pipe size, who cares if 150lbs are using creatine, much better then them injecting eachother in the ass with Test.

Guilo as far as creatine use, look into usiing Creatine Ethyl Ester (CEE) and avoid using normal Creatine (Creatine Monohydrate). CEE has a much better absorption percentage and overall is just far superior. Loading phases are debated, I doubt you really need wait with CEE, and I think you may be overthinking the situation a tad bit. Information about this can be found easily, and I would say to take it, but not over think about it, its a supplement and just that.

[quote]Guilo wrote:
Ok, I admit it, I’m a n00b. Until recently I was also a n00b only worried about doing curls and pull ups. So I’m a n00b with a weak chest and tri’s.

Here’s the question. Based on things I’ve read, and Surge, I’m assuming that after you workout your body is primed for delivering nutrients into your body thus the need for protein and simple carbs (Surge). Can I also assume that your body will favor muscles that you just worked?

Here’s where I’m going with this. I want to even out my chest and tri’s (in this example) with the rest of my body as quickly as possible. So if I load creatine (I’ve never used it) right after say a chest and tri day will the creatine be targeted more into those parts, helping muscle recovery and aiding in my next chest and tri workout? So that I even out more and can then advance in more of an all around way?

Or would it be better to just load like normal, and continue to work everything as completely as possible, and let them advance at their own rate?

I hope that makes sense.[/quote]

There’s no need to “load up” on Creatine (CEE/CEX), so don’t worry about that. Buffalokilla had some good advice, I would say just take 1-4 (err 3-5 with mono unsure on this) grams a day, no need to cycle off, unless you want. Post workout with your “post workout” drink is seen as a great time to take the Creatine.

By the way you will have a water weight gain (held within LBM), no “creatine bloating” like with Creatine Monohydrate, so don’t be worried about a change of say 4 pounds on the scale, as I noticed that you have just recenetly completed the V-Diet, nice transition by the way mate.

Here is a somewhat applicable article on this topic. http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=193athl