T Nation

Question On PCT


#1

I recently finished a 16 week cycle of Dbol and Enethate (My last injection was 2 weeks ago). My cycle consisted of:

2 wks Dbol - 20mg ED
1 wk DBol - 30mg ED
1 wk DBol - 40mg ED
Enanthate 600mg/wk through cycle

I did not do HCG during the cycle and did have some shrinkage. I have 2 5000iu vials - is it too late to take it now? I was told to take one of my 5000iu vials of HCG, add 1mL of the included water and using an insulin pin draw back to the 20 and inject every other day for 10 days along wih taking arimidex daily - is this a good idea? Should I run Nolva also or wait until Im done with the HCG?

If it not advisable to take the HCG I have Nolvadex,Clomid and Arimidex - what is your opinion for the best way for me to use them?

Thanks in advance for any replies.


#2

Yeah its too late for hcg.
Too late for adex.
You could run the standard nolva pct, and even run the standard clomid pct simultaniously.


#3

Save the HCG for your next cycle. If you followed the HCG advice you were given, you would have 5000iu of HCG in 1 ml of bac water. If you injected 1/5th of a ml (20 lines on a .5 cc slin pin) that would be 1000iu per injection. That would exhaust your 2 5000iu vials in 10 injects or 20 days at EOD. That is now considered a high dose and HCG is no longer recommended for PCT. It is believed to be suppressive of the restoration of LH & FSH.

The current recommended dose during cycle (you can start 4-5 weeks before end of cycle instead of at from the outset with good results) is 250iu EOD. I posted the following on another HCG thread in December. It is even easier if your HCG is already in vials.

==========================================

My previous HCG guide:

This is how you use the amps of hCG:

Decide on the dose you will be taking and then reconstitute at the appropriate concentration to facilitate that dosage. I used 250IU EOD. That is the recommended dose. My amps were 5000iu each. I recommend reconstituting with 2.5ml of Bacteriostatic Water. You were likely provided with only 1ml of the water in one of each pair of amps (one contains the freeze dried hCG and the other contains 1 ml of Bacteriostatic Water otherwise known as 0.9% NaCL). If you reconstitute with 2.5ml of Bacteriostatic Water it will yield you 5000iu hCG in 2.5ml of Bacteriostatic Water. This breaks down to 2000iu/ml.

You want a dose of 250iu EOD so you want 1/8th of 1ml (1/8th of 2000iu = 250iu). 1ml / 8 = 0.125ml. That is your EOD dose giving you 250iu each injection. You inject subcutaneously (under the skin - not in muscle) usually around the abdomen. Normally you pinch some skin loosly between thumb and finger and use a 0.5cc insulin pin filled 13 lines (0.13ml is close enough to the 12.5 you want for 250iu).

Now how exactly do you reconstitute? You should buy a sterile vial that you will use to reconstitute. I recommend a small one = 5ml sterile vial. That way you have plenty of room for your 2.5ml and it is small enough so that you can get to every last drop. You will also need to buy extra Bacteriostatic Water. It is not expensive and don’t bother with the miniscule 1ml amp of Bacteriostatic Water provided. Buy Bacteriostatic Water in as small quantity as you can find as you need only 2.5ml for each 5000iu of hCG. Use a 3ml barrell with a 1.5" 25G needle to inject 1ml of Bacteriostatic Water into the amp containing the freeze dried hCG. Let it sit for a minute while you inject the other 1.5ml into the 5ml sterile vial you will be adding the hCG to (that means you should fill the 3ml barrel with 2.5ml of Bacteriostatic Water before injecting 1 ml of it into the hCG amp and then injecting the rest into the sterile 5ml vial. Now you have the sterile vial filled with 1.5ml of Bacteriostatic Water and the hCG amp with 1ml of Bacteriostatic Water combined with the freeze dried hCG.

Finally use the now empty 3ml syringe to extract the mixed hCG and Bacteriostatic Water in the amp (1ml) and inject that into the sterile vial. Now you have 2.5 ml of Bacteriostatic Water mixed with 5000iu freeze dried hCG which means you have completed the reconstitution process and are now ready to use the hCG or refrigerate it until you are ready. It only has to be refrigerated once it is reconstituted.

Hope this helps.


#4

I daren’t even read that!

Anyway, why is it too late for Adex? It can be used (in lower dosages) after cycle.

Brook


#5

[quote] Brook wrote:
I daren’t even read that!

Anyway, why is it too late for Adex? It can be used (in lower dosages) after cycle.

Brook[/quote]

Really? I thought it was no good for pct!
And i thought the nolva would do a similar job.
What job would it do for him now?


#6

[quote]G.I. Joe Galway wrote:
Brook wrote:
I daren’t even read that!

Anyway, why is it too late for Adex? It can be used (in lower dosages) after cycle.

Brook

Really? I thought it was no good for pct!
And i thought the nolva would do a similar job.
What job would it do for him now?
[/quote]

You need to re-read the AI/SERM sticky my friend…
AI will stop the conversion to Estro
the SERM is selective and only blocks E receptors in certain areas


#7

[quote]soontobeIFBB wrote:
G.I. Joe Galway wrote:
Brook wrote:
I daren’t even read that!

Anyway, why is it too late for Adex? It can be used (in lower dosages) after cycle.

Brook

Really? I thought it was no good for pct!
And i thought the nolva would do a similar job.
What job would it do for him now?

You need to re-read the AI/SERM sticky my friend…
AI will stop the conversion to Estro
the SERM is selective and only blocks E receptors in certain areas[/quote]

x3 on the adex.

Your nolva is definitely important though, in that it prevents binding in breast tissue & brings your boys back to life.


#8

AFAIK the only reason SERM’s bring the HPTA back online (in most cases) is due to estrogen.

It is (not only but to a large degree) estrogen that causes suppression and it is the blocking of the estrogen from the SERM that helps to bring the HPTA back upto par. I assume it is an antagonist at the

This can also be achieved with an AI. It would need to be tapered a little afterwards of course as we use non-suicidal AI’s (debatable by BR apparently).

This is AFAIK, i am not sure if i remembered my shit correctly.

Brook


#9

[quote] Brook wrote:
AFAIK the only reason SERM’s bring the HPTA back online (in most cases) is due to estrogen.

It is (not only but to a large degree) estrogen that causes suppression and it is the blocking of the estrogen from the SERM that helps to bring the HPTA back upto par. I assume it is an antagonist at the

This can also be achieved with an AI. It would need to be tapered a little afterwards of course as we use non-suicidal AI’s (debatable by BR apparently).

This is AFAIK, i am not sure if i remembered my shit correctly.

Brook[/quote]

being our major way of getting estrogen in the body is through the aromatization of testosterone if we plummet estrogen into the abyss then the body should secrete more testosterone in hopes that more will convert to estrogen. Since we are taking an aromatase inhibitor then that enzyme cannot convert test into estro and we are stuck with the body producing higher than normal test and keeping estrogen down.

in theory it sounds great but I imagine that tapering an AI down to practically nothing and getting as close to homeostasis as possible would be a better call.

I have personally decided to go on adex year round tapering down to .25mg e7d if need be and as high as .25mg ED while on a cycle of aromatizing steroids. I believe, in theory, that this could help keep test levels higher when not injecting testosterone helping in the ‘pct’ and then doing its job at keeping estrogen under control.

Too much or too little E and your physique is hurt. I think it’s just keeping E in that sweet spot while fluctuating Testosterone and its derivitaves through the pursuit of packing on more and more muscle.

SERMS afaik stimulate FSH LH (think clomid) and can increase test, sperm production, etc which is nice during pct.

I will be trying the stasis/tapern + SERM (thinking torem/clomid) and utilizing peptides during PCT to try and see if I can’t keep all gains while ‘off cycle’ or make new gains possibly.

in the end we are all just one walking science experiment so best educate yourself through literature, the trials and errors of others, and the trials and errors on yourself.

my .02


#10

How long can you keep hcg in the fridge?