[quote]new2training wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to post this. I’ll check out the link as well.
By the way, Nice Work on your transformation. Obviously you’ve put the time and effort in.
Cheers[/quote]
Cheers buddy, yeah it’s all explained alot better in the link.
I checked out the link. What you’ve come up with makes a lot of sense. Not that me saying that is a great endorsement
I am new2 after all.
Recently though I’ve wondered if it makes sense for me to continue to eat big 7 days a week when I only train 3 days a week.
Last fall/summer I started training with the intention to gain strength/size. Started out with a program based off of Chad’s TBT.
So far so good. I went from about 190 to 230 and gained some proficiency with some lifts that I hadn’t used before (deads, good mornings, rows, and squats.)
But I overshot my calorie intake a little and gained a little too much fat for my liking.
I’ve leveled off at about 225 now. And would like to continue to gain lean mass slowly for a while and drop some fat (if possible).
Bottom line is, I think I’ll try your theory/program out for a couple of months. Like I said it makes sense.
Let’s see if it works for me.
What are your thoughts about using a 10X3 program 3 days a week (usually M, W, F) along with your Anacat feeding schedule?
I want to focus on max strength gains in my big lifts and hopefully improve body comp along the way.
Thanks again
[quote]new2training wrote:
Recently though I’ve wondered if it makes sense for me to continue to eat big 7 days a week when I only train 3 days a week.[/quote]
Exactly - like I say, I don’t know the exact timing/rates of protein synthesis after training, but I have played with this idea alot over the last 15 months and I’ve found that if I don’t eat alot after training my DOMS are terrible and my recovery is poor, but if I do eat alot in the (usually) 18 hours or so after training everything is fine, even if I cut back the calories after that.
I also find that people who train later in the day get screwed by simple up-day/down-day dieting. The key is to eat big just in time to put you at full strength for your session, then eat big until you’ve been ‘bulking’ for a full 24 hours.
That means that if you train at 8 in the evening, you have a good sized dinner at 6, hit the gym feeling strong and then eat big until it’s time to cut down the calories again (which would be 6pm the next day).
Simply having an up-day and a down-day in that case would mean most of your up-day calories are wasted increasing adipose, and you only get in a PWO shake and meal after your session before you go back to low calories - that isn’t enough for gains, if you’re waking up starving in the morning then that’s telling you something!
[quote]new2training wrote:
I’ve leveled off at about 225 now. And would like to continue to gain lean mass slowly for a while and drop some fat (if possible).[/quote]
Judging from everyone that I’ve seen do this diet protocol to date it is possible.
[quote]new2training wrote:
What are your thoughts about using a 10X3 program 3 days a week (usually M, W, F) along with your Anacat feeding schedule?
I want to focus on max strength gains in my big lifts and hopefully improve body comp along the way.
Thanks again
[/quote]
I’ve never done 10 x 3 so I don’t know what kind of caloric demands it places on the body exactly, but I would say it would be perfect for a three gym days a week template.
In general, one of the great things about this diet is that you put in all the extra calories after you’ve worked out - so you already know what kind of session you had (good/bad/unbelievably good/etc.). A high volume workout and/or a workout with short rest periods will demand alot of food in the ANA days. High intensity (heavy weights) days will be similar for advanced trainees and less so for beginners & intermediates.
Whichever way it goes, that’s what decides how you eat until it comes time to switch back the calories. Someone who works out more days a week for example, is unlikely to be using sessions as indiviually hard as if they worked out less times a week (hopefully) so obviously they would not eat as much after each session. On the other hand, if you put in a stormer you can guilt-free treat yourself to an eat-fest.
The specifics need to be worked out for yourself, which is why this diet works best where people already know what their typical bulking and cutting diets would be. Don’t be put off if that’s not you, but pay special attention to the following;
The meal(s) before the gym are pretty individual. Usually I find one good protein & carb meal an hour before gym time does the trick. If I’ve had two CAT (low calorie) days in a row then I might have two big meals before the gym. You need to work out what your body needs to be operating on full when you hit the iron.
How much extra to eat on ANA days & how much less to eat on CAT days. Personally I never drop below 11kcals/lb on CAT days & ANA days depend on how my session went. To work this out for yourself you’ll need to be able to monitor how you’re progressing. Watch out for your scale weight because it will fluctuate depending on whether it’s an ANA or a CAT day.
Your best bet is to get callipers and take skin-fold measurements as a measure of bodyfat, and keep track of one or other or both of the scale weights. If the skin-folds stay the same and your bodyweight increases, that’s progress. Like-wise if your scale-weight stays the same and your skin-folds go down, that is also progress. Anything else and you’re getting into grey areas so i usually try and make sure one of the above is happening.
[quote]t-ha wrote:
Listen guys, I’m not looking for an online fight here - I’ve already offered to explain quite simply how it is done, but it seems you’ld rather stick with dogma and throw patronising comments my way?
[/quote]
Ok, in your case it happened. You were a VERY extreme case. If you have 100 lbs of fat to lose, then yes, you’ll be able to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time. Same with a beginner. The first 3 or so months they’ll be able to do both.
Past that, its EXTREMELY hard if at all possible to do both at the same time. This is, of course, keeping steroids out of the picture.
[quote]t-ha wrote:
new2training wrote:
Recently though I’ve wondered if it makes sense for me to continue to eat big 7 days a week when I only train 3 days a week.
Exactly - like I say, I don’t know the exact timing/rates of protein synthesis after training, but I have played with this idea alot over the last 15 months and I’ve found that if I don’t eat alot after training my DOMS are terrible and my recovery is poor, but if I do eat alot in the (usually) 18 hours or so after training everything is fine, even if I cut back the calories after that.
I also find that people who train later in the day get screwed by simple up-day/down-day dieting. The key is to eat big just in time to put you at full strength for your session, then eat big until you’ve been ‘bulking’ for a full 24 hours.
That means that if you train at 8 in the evening, you have a good sized dinner at 6, hit the gym feeling strong and then eat big until it’s time to cut down the calories again (which would be 6pm the next day).
Simply having an up-day and a down-day in that case would mean most of your up-day calories are wasted increasing adipose, and you only get in a PWO shake and meal after your session before you go back to low calories - that isn’t enough for gains, if you’re waking up starving in the morning then that’s telling you something!
new2training wrote:
I’ve leveled off at about 225 now. And would like to continue to gain lean mass slowly for a while and drop some fat (if possible).
Judging from everyone that I’ve seen do this diet protocol to date it is possible.
new2training wrote:
What are your thoughts about using a 10X3 program 3 days a week (usually M, W, F) along with your Anacat feeding schedule?
I want to focus on max strength gains in my big lifts and hopefully improve body comp along the way.
Thanks again
I’ve never done 10 x 3 so I don’t know what kind of caloric demands it places on the body exactly, but I would say it would be perfect for a three gym days a week template.
In general, one of the great things about this diet is that you put in all the extra calories after you’ve worked out - so you already know what kind of session you had (good/bad/unbelievably good/etc.). A high volume workout and/or a workout with short rest periods will demand alot of food in the ANA days. High intensity (heavy weights) days will be similar for advanced trainees and less so for beginners & intermediates.
Whichever way it goes, that’s what decides how you eat until it comes time to switch back the calories. Someone who works out more days a week for example, is unlikely to be using sessions as indiviually hard as if they worked out less times a week (hopefully) so obviously they would not eat as much after each session. On the other hand, if you put in a stormer you can guilt-free treat yourself to an eat-fest.
The specifics need to be worked out for yourself, which is why this diet works best where people already know what their typical bulking and cutting diets would be. Don’t be put off if that’s not you, but pay special attention to the following;
The meal(s) before the gym are pretty individual. Usually I find one good protein & carb meal an hour before gym time does the trick. If I’ve had two CAT (low calorie) days in a row then I might have two big meals before the gym. You need to work out what your body needs to be operating on full when you hit the iron.
How much extra to eat on ANA days & how much less to eat on CAT days. Personally I never drop below 11kcals/lb on CAT days & ANA days depend on how my session went. To work this out for yourself you’ll need to be able to monitor how you’re progressing. Watch out for your scale weight because it will fluctuate depending on whether it’s an ANA or a CAT day.
Your best bet is to get callipers and take skin-fold measurements as a measure of bodyfat, and keep track of one or other or both of the scale weights. If the skin-folds stay the same and your bodyweight increases, that’s progress. Like-wise if your scale-weight stays the same and your skin-folds go down, that is also progress. Anything else and you’re getting into grey areas so i usually try and make sure one of the above is happening.
[/quote]
Again, thanks for your guidance and taking the time to post. It is appreciated.
I’m fired up about this and will work on fine tuning it for my needs.
I’ve been using it for about week now and have felt good during workouts. So the calorie restriction days don’t seem to be affecting my strength levels.
We’ll see. If your interested I’ll let you know how it works out in a couple of months.
[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:
Ok, in your case it happened. You were a VERY extreme case. If you have 100 lbs of fat to lose, then yes, you’ll be able to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time. Same with a beginner. The first 3 or so months they’ll be able to do both.
Past that, its EXTREMELY hard if at all possible to do both at the same time. This is, of course, keeping steroids out of the picture.[/quote]
Like I said already, forget the 100lbs cut, I was only just beginning to train right and eat adequate protein so that would have had a big effect on my ability to gain muscle.
I’ve spent the last 16 months bulking (with the exception of one month last summer) and this is something I use every time the adipose gets too high. I’m doing it right now & I would say I am no longer a beginner (certaintly newb gains being involved is out of the question) and it still works. I can still get leaner and have my weight stay static or increase. It seems to make no difference to the speed at which I gain muscle.
Not only that, but everyone who does it right reports the same thing & that includes plenty of natural trainees (and obviously myself as a natural trainee).
It sounds like you didn’t read the link I posted? If not then I’d urge you to flick through it before making a final decision.
I explain it in there - if the whole thing still makes no sense to you at all then come back to me, but for the moment I’m going to assume you haven’t read the whole thread and/or the link I put up.
Also, check out Tony Gentilcore’s bonus article on the home page. I don’t know if he’s been playing around with the parameters as long as I have as he said himself he’s kind of shooting from the hip with alot of them, but it shows that I’m not the only person thinking like this.
[quote]new2training wrote:
If your interested I’ll let you know how it works out in a couple of months.
[/quote]
Yeah cheers - I’m always interested to see how other people get on with it, for good or for bad.