[quote]Skrom wrote:
So, what, being strong means you can’t relax your muscles? Right…[/quote]
I hardly said that. I said if you neglect speed training, you won’t be able to relax your muscles.
The best sprinters in the world are incredibly, incredibly strong… but they also speed training multiple times per week.
i think if you stay in practice you have nothing to worry about. i’ve gone from 145-50 to 188 @ 5’10" the last 3 years and i’m still skinny but i’m ALOT faster than i ever was. my lifting is centered around o-lifts and i do a good bit of running and speed work on my bike (i was focused on cycling before i got a full time job)
there were times when i was feeling slower. especially when lifting heavy and not doing any running, but a few speed workouts turns it right back around.
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
Skrom wrote:
So, what, being strong means you can’t relax your muscles? Right…
I hardly said that. I said if you neglect speed training, you won’t be able to relax your muscles.
The best sprinters in the world are incredibly, incredibly strong… but they also speed training multiple times per week.
[/quote]
I say you shut up.
To the OP, in case you did’nt get that, eat more skinny ass.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Skrom wrote:
Just so you know, weight training is not going to help or hurt your performance as a drummer. It’s all technique, so don’t even worry about that…train to get bigger so that you can look good drumming without a shirt.
If being big hurt your hand skills, I would be fucked [/quote]
“And in local news a bodybuilder accidently yanked off his penis while masterbating. Doctors are still unsure of the precise cause but some are speculating he possessed too much functional hand strength and simply lost control.”
If you’re worried about a little extra bulk and not being able to see your 6-pack then here’s the world’s best at their worst. Follow their examples and eat.
[quote]X-Factor wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
Skrom wrote:
So, what, being strong means you can’t relax your muscles? Right…
I hardly said that. I said if you neglect speed training, you won’t be able to relax your muscles.
The best sprinters in the world are incredibly, incredibly strong… but they also speed training multiple times per week.
I say you shut up.
To the OP, in case you did’nt get that, eat more skinny ass.
[/quote]
Brilliant post right here…
I second the reply for the guy talking about muscle tone to shut up. But way to try to sound like you knew what you were talking about.
[quote]wressler125 wrote:
I second the reply for the guy talking about muscle tone to shut up. But way to try to sound like you knew what you were talking about. [/quote]
Let’s see what I’ve said so far…
“Speed and strength work should accompany each other when training for speed.”
“The best sprinters in the world are incredibly strong, but speed training multiple times per week.”
“High-speed movements are all about how many times you can contract a muscle in a certain period of time. Being able to relax the muscle is critical to be able to do so.”
EXCESSIVE (not “sufficient” or “optimal”) strength training can impair speed-strength and technical skill.
In that case I second the vote that you shut the hell up, and move that the guy that said muscle tone will slow him down, or wtf he said, also shut the hell up.
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
I hardly said that. I said if you neglect speed training, you won’t be able to relax your muscles.
[/quote]
Not true. In any sense.
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
The best sprinters in the world are incredibly, incredibly strong… but they also speed training multiple times per week.
[/quote]
No shit? They’re sprinters, of course they do speed work. What does this have to do with how strength slows you down? The strongest powerlifters are also incredibly fast. Maybe not at maximal effort, but I can promise you the ability to train heavy does not hinder speed.
Why don’t you guys write a letter to ex-T-Mag writer charlie francis who has all of his sprinters have many massages a day for thier muscles in order to keep from a muscle pull or tear?
They weren’t pulling this stuff out of thier ass, but it really doesn’t apply much here, because drumming has no where near the velosity of sprinting on your muscles.
[quote]Skrom wrote:
So, what, being strong means you can’t relax your muscles? Right…
And by the way, as I said earlier, drumming has nothing to do with strength. Not even “speed drumming” (I assume he means punk or speed metal or something along those lines).[/quote]
Hey dudes, wow, this thread is getting heated up but I’m learning some interesting stuff. When I refer to speed drumming I mean “extreme metal/death metal”. Basically it is a lot of continuous two foot and hand work RLRLR sometimes simulatneously hands and feet together and other varieties (I would need extra room to post all the combos) etc for periods of time and songs can last anywhere from two to four minutes long on average. So besides being able to do a RLRLRL for long periods of time, I have to be able to last through songs and rehearsals etc. I’m not saying I can’t do that, but I want to maintain this playing level and perhaps go beyond. In the past and when I first started training, it was and sometimes still tricky to develop routines and know which ones will work more than others to effectively mimic a playing scenario. I think that the modified westside approach seems to fit really well.
The combination of firing up the fast twitch fibers as well as doing some lactic acid stuff and occasionally some circuits gives me some nice variety. The point I’m also trying to make is that the playing not only requires the fast twitch fibers to come into play but on the oppositie side of the spectrum, the endurance portion is important too which is why I like to use the lactic acid and circuit stuff. I don’t want to do what most drummers do and break up an RLRLRL pattern every couple of measures, I want to hold it out… it would be like doing a longer 40 or something like that.
On top of that, I have to make sure that when I do practice on training days, I eat too. You can bet your bippy that I eat my rice, and yams and well you know the deal lol. Oh, did I mention I do intervals and some running. Don’t worry I do sleep… I knew I should have taken up the flute lol Again, I train to improve performance and while I am trying to get bigger, it is for the purpose of hopefully gaining more power speed, and all that good stuff. Thanks again for the replies. Keep em coming folks.
To the original poster:
I think a conjugate setup, something like the Westside for Skinny Bastards program as you mentioned, would be ideal. However, I would pay special attention to the RE work, as you noted before, lactic acid endurance is going to be key for you. Also, I would pair up intense drumming session on your upper body lifting days. Something like this comes to mind:
Monday- Upper Body ME + drumming with an emphasis on speed
Wednesday- Lower Body ME + assistance
Friday- Upper Body RE + drumming with an emphasis on endurance
Work the shit out of your forearms, grip, etc. DeFranco has some great suggestions on his site and check out the T-Nation radio that he did. Also maybe take a look at Ironmind.com, they have some great grip resources.
Definitly don’t be afraid of getting bigger. At a certain point it might be counterproductive, but from your posts it seems like that’s still a ways off. As long as you keep up the drumming work, your mass gains are going to translate positively to drumming speed and endurance, making them… dare I say… functional.
BTW, do you play for a band? I dabble in that scene a little. I’m more towards the metalcore/hardcore side, but I listen to a lot of shit, especially out here on the east coast.
[quote]wressler125 wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
I hardly said that. I said if you neglect speed training, you won’t be able to relax your muscles.
Not true. In any sense. [/quote]
Actually, it’s quite true. Go ask a track coach how to run the 100 meter dash. If he doesn’t mention relaxing at maximal speed, he’s not a very good track coach. Being able to relax at maximal speed is a skill that takes practice. How do you practice it? Well… by speed training. Thus, if you neglect speed training, you will have difficulty relaxing your muscles at maximal speeds.
[quote]
jtrinsey wrote:
The best sprinters in the world are incredibly, incredibly strong… but they also speed training multiple times per week.
No shit? They’re sprinters, of course they do speed work. What does this have to do with how strength slows you down?[/quote]
Again, I never said that strength work slows you down. I said that EXCESSIVE strength work, in the ABSENCE of speed work can slow you down.
[quote]
The strongest powerlifters are also incredibly fast.[/quote]
Are they? Or are you just pulling that out of your ass to try to prove your point? Because I’m pretty sure that’s the case. Maybe we have a different idea of what “incredibly fast” means.
If powerlifting was the key to speed, Ed Coan would’ve won a few olympic medals by now.
I’m not saying that lifting heavy isn’t important. It certainly is and certainly is a key component to speed development. For less qualified athletes, it’s probably even the primary component. However, there are many other ingredients involved as well.
[quote]wressler125 wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
I hardly said that. I said if you neglect speed training, you won’t be able to relax your muscles.
Not true. In any sense.
jtrinsey wrote:
The best sprinters in the world are incredibly, incredibly strong… but they also speed training multiple times per week.
No shit? They’re sprinters, of course they do speed work. What does this have to do with how strength slows you down? The strongest powerlifters are also incredibly fast. Maybe not at maximal effort, but I can promise you the ability to train heavy does not hinder speed.[/quote]
Were you there with a stopwatch timing their 100m’s? We all know that increased strength levels are going to help speed and power, but without training for running speed which is what you’re referring to, they’re going to be as slow or slower than most.
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
wressler125 wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
I hardly said that. I said if you neglect speed training, you won’t be able to relax your muscles.
Not true. In any sense.
Actually, it’s quite true. Go ask a track coach how to run the 100 meter dash. If he doesn’t mention relaxing at maximal speed, he’s not a very good track coach. Being able to relax at maximal speed is a skill that takes practice. How do you practice it? Well… by speed training. Thus, if you neglect speed training, you will have difficulty relaxing your muscles at maximal speeds.
jtrinsey wrote:
The best sprinters in the world are incredibly, incredibly strong… but they also speed training multiple times per week.
No shit? They’re sprinters, of course they do speed work. What does this have to do with how strength slows you down?
Again, I never said that strength work slows you down. I said that EXCESSIVE strength work, in the ABSENCE of speed work can slow you down.
The strongest powerlifters are also incredibly fast.
Are they? Or are you just pulling that out of your ass to try to prove your point? Because I’m pretty sure that’s the case. Maybe we have a different idea of what “incredibly fast” means.
If powerlifting was the key to speed, Ed Coan would’ve won a few olympic medals by now.
I’m not saying that lifting heavy isn’t important. It certainly is and certainly is a key component to speed development. For less qualified athletes, it’s probably even the primary component. However, there are many other ingredients involved as well.
[/quote]
I never said relaxing isn’t a key to speed. You’re playing with words here. I’m saying that strengh training will not hinder that ability. Obviously if he neglects speed training he won’t be as fast, but that doesn’t mean that if he focuses on ME that he will lose speed. This simply isn’t true, and you’re playing with words.
As for your Ed Coan comment, you’re completely off base here. I consider fast to be faster than they would be if they were much weaker. Strength is a large component to speed. And once you cut back the weight, these guys can move. No why would ed coan have metals in the olympics? Did I say he’d be fast at an olympic level? Did I say that being fast would improve his sprint mechanics? Again, your playing with words.
I do agree with following a conjugated approach to your training though.
[quote]DukeBoSox wrote:
wressler125 wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
I hardly said that. I said if you neglect speed training, you won’t be able to relax your muscles.
Not true. In any sense.
jtrinsey wrote:
The best sprinters in the world are incredibly, incredibly strong… but they also speed training multiple times per week.
No shit? They’re sprinters, of course they do speed work. What does this have to do with how strength slows you down? The strongest powerlifters are also incredibly fast. Maybe not at maximal effort, but I can promise you the ability to train heavy does not hinder speed.
Were you there with a stopwatch timing their 100m’s? We all know that increased strength levels are going to help speed and power, but without training for running speed which is what you’re referring to, they’re going to be as slow or slower than most.
[/quote]
Who said I was refering to running? I said they are fast. The original poster is a drummer, not a sprinter. I consider myself fast but wouldn’t use the 100m to test this.
[quote]wressler125 wrote:
I never said relaxing isn’t a key to speed. You’re playing with words here. I’m saying that strengh training will not hinder that ability. Obviously if he neglects speed training he won’t be as fast, but that doesn’t mean that if he focuses on ME that he will lose speed. This simply isn’t true, and you’re playing with words.
As for your Ed Coan comment, you’re completely off base here. I consider fast to be faster than they would be if they were much weaker. Strength is a large component to speed. And once you cut back the weight, these guys can move. No why would ed coan have metals in the olympics? Did I say he’d be fast at an olympic level? Did I say that being fast would improve his sprint mechanics? Again, your playing with words.
I do agree with following a conjugated approach to your training though.[/quote]
I pretty much agree with most of what you said there. In arguments things tend to get over-exagerrated for the purpose of making arguments.
I think we all can agree that if you want to get fast you have to increase your maximal strength and do your speed work, whatever that may be- sprinting, drumming, etc.
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
To the original poster:
I think a conjugate setup, something like the Westside for Skinny Bastards program as you mentioned, would be ideal. However, I would pay special attention to the RE work, as you noted before, lactic acid endurance is going to be key for you. Also, I would pair up intense drumming session on your upper body lifting days. Something like this comes to mind:
Monday- Upper Body ME + drumming with an emphasis on speed
Wednesday- Lower Body ME + assistance
Friday- Upper Body RE + drumming with an emphasis on endurance
Work the shit out of your forearms, grip, etc. DeFranco has some great suggestions on his site and check out the T-Nation radio that he did. Also maybe take a look at Ironmind.com, they have some great grip resources.
Definitly don’t be afraid of getting bigger. At a certain point it might be counterproductive, but from your posts it seems like that’s still a ways off. As long as you keep up the drumming work, your mass gains are going to translate positively to drumming speed and endurance, making them… dare I say… functional.
BTW, do you play for a band? I dabble in that scene a little. I’m more towards the metalcore/hardcore side, but I listen to a lot of shit, especially out here on the east coast.[/quote]
Hey Jtrinsey,
Thanks so much for the useful info. I definitely try to mix and match my training days and drumming days. However, I do try to cycle my lactic acid work as Louie (Simmons) states - I do a lot of that on the drums as well so I don’t want to overtrain or overtax my CNS. However, the RE work is useful. After I saw Couture do his circuit training video, although his form was a little funky, the theory behind his ways made sense. I also hear that Floyd Mayweather often spars anywhere from four to ten minute rounds and he has fantastic speed. I try to take a little bit from different disciplines. Regarding bands, one of the bands I am working for has a myspace site but they haven’t finished putting up the songs we recorded. I’ll keep ya’ll posted. Thanks…P.S. I wouldn’t consider myself a skinny bastard, maybe a thin bastard lol, trying to work my way up to a medium bastard someday - hopefully after the summer. P.S. uh oh you said the “f” word…functional lol
[quote]E-man wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Skrom wrote:
Just so you know, weight training is not going to help or hurt your performance as a drummer. It’s all technique, so don’t even worry about that…train to get bigger so that you can look good drumming without a shirt.
If being big hurt your hand skills, I would be fucked
“And in local news a bodybuilder accidently yanked off his penis while masterbating. Doctors are still unsure of the precise cause but some are speculating he possessed too much functional hand strength and simply lost control.”
[/quote]
F–KING funny